The trade rumor about the Hornets that is floating around right now is a trade of Tyson Chandler to the Heat for Shawn Marion. At first glance, this galls me no end because it's a clear salary dump. Marion will come off the books at the end of the year, and we'll probably be left with nothing to show for it, since some team somewhere will probably make a run at him the Hornets won't be willing to match. Marion is a fine rebounder, but he's not going to improve our interior defense.
Plus, I'm a HUGE fan of Tyson Chandler, no matter how his season has been so far.
That said, I'm going to try to be unbiased and talk about this.
First, there are some realities to the Hornet's situation that are relevant here. Next year they will be over the luxury tax unless they find some way to cut salary. That's just not acceptable for a small market team, no matter how well they are doing. Salary must be cut somewhere. So remember there is some economic incentive behind this.
Next, this can't be the entire trade. Marion's salary is 17 million this year, Tyson's is 11 million. That means the Hornets have to also provide another 5-6 million worth of salary to make it work.
The easy answer is they are throwing in Morris Peterson. Peterson still has some value around the league, so this makes the deal worse in my opinion.
Here's one thought I had - Pat Riley has proven he's willing to pull the trigger on a big deal containing bad contracts if he thinks it will propel his team to a title. Here's a Mega-Trade I could consider:
Hornets Give: Tyson Chandler + Peterson + Posey + Antonio Daniels
Heat Give: Shawn Marion + Udonis Haslem + James Jones + Daequan Cook + Mario Chalmers
Hornets Depth Chart:
C: Haslem\Armstrong\Marks
PF: West\Ely\Wright
SF: Marion\Butler\Wright
SG: Stojakovic\Cook\Wright
PG: Paul\Chalmers
(Jones is hurt)
Heat Depth Chart:
C: Chandler\Magloire\Blount
PF: Beasley\Anthony\D. Wright
SF: Posey\Peterson\D. Wright
SG: Wade\Peterson\Diawara
PG: Quinn\Daniels\Banks
Essentially, the Heat get to start Beasley next to Chandler, have a nice SF in Posey, and get some decent depth at the SG and PG positions. The Hornets cut salary, upgrade their wing position, stay fairly static at their center position(at least for this year), and gain a nice, developing point guard they already liked a lot. Unfortunately, the Hornets remain in the position of having no backup big worth anything.
Oh and another option would be to keep Posey and either Peterson or Daniels, and offer Peja instead.
I'm torn on trades like this. I hate the idea of gutting this team - though I recognize we need some upgrades.


18 superb comments post your own
Juncti
02/06/09 10:44 AM
Everyone keeps saying not to panic, we're still a 5 seed I think is missing another important angle. The 8 seed has played 4 more games than us at this point, and if we fill those 4 games in with another 4 game losing streak, we're out the playoffs looking in as a 9 seed, if not worse depending on what the present 9 seed does.
West by him self isn't enough to get it done, and whether it's injuries, foul trouble, or just plain need for rest, TC and Paul have to sit from time to time. We can't keep going with a roster that digs us in a hole every time TC and Paul go to the bench.
Even at full strength, there's still a big void there and something will have to be done ultimately.
That said, I don't want to see TC leave either.
#1
YoungFella
02/06/09 11:51 AM
Wouldn't it be the Hornets that would have to throw in another player to make the salaries match? My fear would that we'd trade MoPete and Chandler for Marion. That would cause me to call my rep and tell him he just lost 6 season tickets next year.
The ONLY way I would consider trading away a 7-1 big who is healthy (knee and back-wise I mean) and can run and has seasoning is if we can dump Peja's contract and get another stopgap big in return.
If we aren't getting out of Peja's contract than there's absolutely no reason to do this trade.
#2
YoungFella
02/06/09 11:53 AM
Haslem and Marion for Peja, Chandler, and our 2010 first would arguably be the only win-win for both teams IMHO.
#3
Mikey
02/06/09 11:55 AM
There is a monkey-wrench here.... Chander has a player option for the 2010-2011 season, which he'd be crazy not to take. Does Pat Riley blow his shot at the 2010 free-for-all for Tyson Chandler?
#4
mW
02/06/09 12:09 PM
Bower also has to be thinking how well the weneed to win now revolutions have worked for Phoenx and Dallas. Getting below the luxury tax is understandable, but what cost? Plus, look who's over the cap: LAL, BOS, and CLE. Seems to be working out pretty well for them.
www.hornetshype.com #5
Ryan Schwan
02/06/09 12:28 PM
You're right Youngfella - I'm having a rough day. The Hornets would have to toss in another salary - probably Peterson. Ugh.
I've updated the stupid post.
www.hornets247.com #6
Niall Doherty
02/06/09 12:38 PM
Can't say I like any of these trades really. Our defense would go from bad to worse if we shipped Tyson.
Lately I've been thinking we'd be much better off trading David West, since I can't see him being an All-Star again after this season (i.e. methinks we've already seen his peak). Now with Chris Bosh rumored to want out of Toronto, I'd be all for sending a package of either West and Peterson or West and Butler to the Raptors for CB4. I'd do that in a heartbeat, and it might be the best deal the Raps will find before the deadline.
www.ndoherty.com #7
YoungFella
02/06/09 12:53 PM
Why would we trade West? He's doesn't have a bad contract or anything. It's moot anyway, Shinn absolutely loves West and he's not touchable.
We need to trade PEJA!
#8
Niall Doherty
02/06/09 01:13 PM
I'm not saying getting rid of West would be addition by subtraction or anything. I'm just saying we should consider trading him if the deal would improve the team, and I think Chris Bosh would be an improvement. Not just this season but in the long run, too. It also seems like a pretty realistic deal that both sides would consider.
www.ndoherty.com #9
Andrea
02/06/09 02:14 PM
@Niall: As much as I love David, I'd be willing to trade him for Bosh. He's one of the best PFs in the league (so is David IMO) and he's only 24 yrs old. We'd get bigger and slightly better at that position.
Marion for Tyson= No thanks. That would be a horrible trade. If this is the complete trade, it wouldn't be wise for us to give up a player TC's size when we are already a small team with/without him on the roster.
Posey/Chandler/Peterson/Daniels for Haslem/Jones/Chalmers/Marion/Cook= Doubt it would happen. The Heat didn't exactly fight to keep Posey after his first stint there and I doubt they'd take him back. Only bright spots in this trade would be the addition of Haslem and Chalmers. Chalmers was the steal of the draft and Haslem is a guy who's going to just play hard and get the job done night in, night out.
@YoungFella: I'm all for trading Peja. He's the one guy outside of Paul/Chandler/West who still has a LOT of trade value. I was thinking (hoping) Peja for Maggette, cash, and another player
#10
Mark
02/06/09 02:37 PM
MIKE MILLER.
Heehee, all joking aside, a healthy Chandler is the perfect complement to O' Almighty. I'm not too sure of his defense, honestly, but he's our only low post option (sorry Hilton), and his athleticism allows severe mismatches with the pick-roll. Triple C, anybody?
Marion would be good, but as you pointed out, it's a mere salary dump. Which may help in the near future, but I've never been too good at chess, analogous to the situation.
www.dogpile.com/ #11
SavageHenry
02/06/09 03:09 PM
I'm also against a straight-up Marion for Ty swap. We're all familiar with our defensive struggles in the paint recently, and getting rid of Chandler will in no way help solve that issue. Marion was a great defender with the Suns, but from what I've read (don't watch many Heat games) he's kinda slacked off in that department. His versatility on offense would bring something to the table, but not enough to offset what we would be lacking elsewhere.
Even though I love Peja, I have to agree that he's the piece that makes the most sense to trade. To me, it just doesn't seem that our offensive style of play maximizes the utility of a player with Peja's skills. We need some athleticism at the wing. The Maggette trade mentioned by louisianagyrl would be fantastic, but I just can't see the Warriors going for it.
Guess we can always hold out hope that someone decides to give away a great player for scraps. Oh, wait, that only happens to the Lakers.
#12
Steven Huddleston
02/06/09 04:42 PM
Get the Thunder involved and the deal might make some sense. Bees get Marion and Swift+ Collison or Wilcox or Smith- maybe a pick from Presti's war chest. Heat get Chandler and Watson. Thunder get back Mo Pete and JuJu (Hey, you're not playing them anyway). I think the salaries about work out- Thunder have a 1.8 mill trade exception to help grease the wheels. Swift has actually looked pretty good before Collison and Krstic squeezed him out of the rotation. If he can stay healthy (big if) he could still be a solid young big with lots of potential.
#13
chefcdb
02/06/09 06:25 PM
On the surface, this seems like the most preposterous trade rumor about the Hornets since the bad old Baron Davis days. It's already plain and painful that we have a surplus of kinda athletic swingmen (Devin, Juju, Peja, Bop, Poz, etc) but are sorely lacking in bigs who defend the paint and scorers who can penetrate and create. This trade would do zip for our needs, we'd lose our biggest big in Tyson, and the salaries don't match so the Hornets would be obliged to throw in more pieces.
No doubt the Heat would like a running young center. I'd like a pony that poops gold bricks, too. I cannot see any value in this trade as described in Marc Stein's column. For crying out loud, we have to start Ryan Bowen because all our other bigs are flailing. The only positive would be that we turn into the late, lamented run'n'gun Phoenix Suns and try to shoot teams outta the gym, which I don't see working against the Spurs and Lakers this year.
This trade could only makes sense if it's a 3 or 4 team deal, where the Hornets don't actually get Marion. We'd need a big, like Brad Miller, and maybe a scoring guard, like John Salmons (though he's not the kind of locker room guy N.O. aims to acquire, so he's just an example). I'd still hate it because I think Tyson has begun to reach his potential with the Hornets, and the way he and CP play gives teams nightmares on offense, and Tyson and DX play with underrated toughness together on D.
Ultimately, I think trading Bobby Jackson at last year's deadline was a small mistake. Bonzi played a few great games but he shrivelled during the playoffs, and we saw what Mike James did for the team. I'd rather have Jackson than Antonio Daniels, although I like Daniels. Trading Tyson Chandler is an exponentially riskier maneuver for the Hornets, and I bee-lieve this rumor has lots of Pat Riley wish fulfillment hype and little actual news value.
I sincerely pray I don't have to eat my words on the odds of this trade actually happening. To me it's pure nonsense.
chefcdb.livejournal.com #14
chefcdb
02/06/09 06:39 PM
One other thing, the Hornets cannot trade Peja for Maggette if the goal is to get cap space. Maggette just signed a new 4 yr deal when Golden State panicked due to the B.Diddle defection. So do not hold your breath for that outcome. Maggette is talented, but his contract comes with heavy golden handcuffs. He's kinda a ball hog, too.
I don't like the idea of trading Peja, either. He's been a favorite player for many years in my book. Yes, he has the highest trade bait value, and shooters can be replaced way easier than big centers. If it was my deal to veto, I'd be very skeptical of any Peja trade, but it is a business and ya gotta listen to offers. If we got younger with a talented scorer, I'd think it over, but likely say, "Thanks, but no thanks."
chefcdb.livejournal.com #15
Apple
02/07/09 03:28 AM
Who starts these rumors???
appleita.blogspot.com/ #16
JoJo
02/07/09 02:37 PM
How about West and Julian for Amare
Or Tyson and Julian for Amare.
In my mind the team (as it's built right now) doesn't really have a shot at winning the whole thing. The Suns want to get rid of Amare and have expressed that they won't be expecting to get full value for him. Let's take advantage of that and sell DWest high and buy Amare low.
Don't get me wrong, i'm a big West fan, but I just don't think he's the ideal guy for Paul to play with.
#17
NOH_Domination
02/07/09 05:23 PM
Give me Amare. That trade wouldn't work
a) because it wouldn't propel the heat to a title
b) AD cannot be traded with another player.
#18