I've watched almost every minute of Hornets Basketball for about five years now - excepting games where my transmission(or TIVO skills) failed. I saw every game of the 18-64 season, and even in blowout losses, I don't turn games off in the fourth.
The game is still going on right now. TIVO isn't recording. I'm not going to watch. I'm sure tomorrow it's more than likely we'll see all sorts of horrible stats about the game - least points scored ever, worst margin of loss, etc, etc. All I know is that won't really express how hard that game was to watch, and I can't even bring myself to try to write observations about the thing.
The Nuggets proved in games 1 and 2 that they were the better team. For the last month, the Hornets have proven that something is seriously broken with them. Tonight, all of that was on display.
Now, excuse me, I'm going to go play some game in which I can slaughter enemies and try to forget what I just saw.
67 articulate comments post your own
SavageHenry
04/27/09 10:16 PM
I'm going with gears of war 2
#1
Mark
04/27/09 10:27 PM
I bought my first video game in 4 years last weekend (Team Fortress 2). No beer in my fridge, so I think I'll get at that.
www.dogpile.com/ #2
NOEngineer
04/27/09 10:28 PM
I have never left a game before the end prior to tonight. Down 38 at the end of the 3rd quarter I left, along with thousands of others. I never thought I would see this team surrender and roll over like they did from the end of the first quarter on. We only had one mediocre player tonight (James Posey). Every other player was pathetic, embarrassing, or worse. CP3 played with no energy or passion. David West was as bad as the prior 3 games. Chandler was a no-show. Peja couldn't pee in the toilet unless he was sitting down. Butler, Daniels, and Marks could have stayed home.
Yeah, the refs sucked and Denver made a bunch of tough contested shots early. However, we responded with missed layups, lazy weak turnovers, extremely slowness, zero defensive pressure, flat-footed rebounding, missed defensive assignments, and poor outside shooting. It's almost like the
Hornets
took
a
dive..???
I want a refund!
#3
Niall Doherty
04/27/09 10:29 PM
I don't blame you, Ryan.
That was the most miserable performance I've ever seen. The biggest game of the season and we deliver the worst loss in franchise history, tied the worst loss in NBA playoff history. The Nuggets were far better in every facet of the game. There's absolutely no doubt that they're the better team.
I don't think the Hornets are even close to 100% healthy (Chandler, Paul and Posey in particular), but injuries alone don't account for what happened tonight. Serious changes need to be made this offseason or there's every chance we won't even make the playoffs next year.
www.ndoherty.com #4
MonstaBee
04/27/09 10:39 PM
I just got home from that abyssmal performance. Byron Scott elected to keep the starters in til the 4th quarter even after they continued to go down deeper and deeper...great coaching. Lets leave JuJu on the bench until we are down 40. Lets stick with West when he gives us nothing, especially on the defensive side of the ball. Lets stick with Tyson even though he had 0 rebounds in the first half...because Armstrong couldnt do better.
Bad coaching just amplified an awful night for the hornets...not to mention the Nuggest were en fuego in the first quarter (72%).
And to add insult to injury...and I hope Byron saw it...George Karl called a timeout up 55 points, walked to the free throw line, smile and took it all in. It was the beat down of all beat downs and our guys knew it and gave up. Worst playoff loss, most turnovers, etc...we set a lot of records at least.
This team is in trouble...not just this year either.
#5
TheKeyMaster
04/27/09 10:39 PM
i've been a hornets fan for 17 years now and this is the first time i've ever been ashamed of this team. I think every player should give back his salary for the playoffs so that way shinn can give the paying customers their money back. There is no excuse for playing like that, the whole team should be ashamed....i hope cp has fun bowling in the offseason as for the rest of the guys have fun being shipped to crappy teams and saying goodbye to playing with one of the most talented players in the nba.
#6
Jeremy
04/27/09 10:42 PM
You shouldn't forget this game. This is the lasting memory of the 2008-2009 season. They had a chance to come up big and they flat out quit. For the first 20 minutes or so, the biggest CP3 fans were on the court wearing white as they looked for him to save them. After they realize that was not going to be the case, they folded as if they were origami. As everyone goes to purchase their season tickets next year, keep this game in mind. I know I will. If I were to put on that performance at my place of work, I would be fired. Let's see who will suffer that fate at the end of the year.
#7
ticktock6
04/27/09 10:53 PM
You should totally have kept watching. I am pretty sure JR Smith jacked two threes in my face after I yelled [something inappropriate about him being a huge hero hitting shots when his team was up 50]. We were practically courtside after everyone left. You can probably blame me for some of the running up of the score... I don't think he liked being heckled by a girl.
Or no. Blame the bench for showing no heart or effort. Wow.
hornetshype.com #8
3ptace
04/27/09 10:58 PM
G-A-R-B-A-G-E
As a long time New Orleans Saints fan , I guess I should know a thing or two about masochism. This was beyond that. That team is a disgrace to the game of basketball.
#9
Jared Sylvester
04/27/09 11:01 PM
This team has a lot bigger problems than an early exit from the playoffs. The hornets are in trouble for next couple of years with all the aging players that cant get it done anymore (peja,brown,peterson,daniels,and ely). I would say get rid of everyone except for Paul, Chandler, West, Wright, and Armstrong. Everyone else can go. I would be for just about any deal that would get rid of Peja and his ridiculous contract outside of trading Paul. Our team is old and we are in trouble.
#10
TheKeyMaster
04/27/09 11:02 PM
I'm pretty sure any other team in the league would've put up a better effort than that, wtf happened to our team? i think it's pretty safe to say every hornets player's reputation has taken a serious hit and i don't think CP will be one of the nba's golden boys anymore. This team needs to be blown up, hell maybe trade CP bc apparently he doesn't care anymore.
#11
The_big_H
04/27/09 11:08 PM
I would have played the starters the whole 4th. They got us in this hole, and they can suffer the embarrassment of being out there.
Game 5 is huge. If they win, will the stinkfest be forgiven?
Can BS save his job because if its another blowout should be fired before he'es left the areana.
And out of 16 quarters, how many have Denver scored fewer than 25 points? I'm too sad to look it up but i say 1
#12
GoDallas
04/27/09 11:18 PM
Hey guys just checking in.
I just thought I would say that your reaction is totally blown out of proportion. You guys have a great team that had an off year (comparatively) and got an unlucky matchup in the first round. The Hornets probably just came to this game a little unprepared and then got overwhelmed and never caught up.
I don't know if any of you read my posts last year, but I thought there was a ton of unnecessary disrespect to the Mavs. One year can't dethrone a team.
GO MAVS!
#13
Andrea
04/27/09 11:21 PM
Chris Paul should go Kobe and ask to be traded. Maybe that will light a serious fire under Bower to do something about this mess.
Only bad thing is that after performances like this, who will want some of these guys? Everyone needs to go except Chris Paul, Rasual Butler, and MAYBE Sean Marks. This is unbelievable...
Like I said earlier this season, I think this team and the coaches really think we did more than make it to the 2nd round of the playoffs last season. Like we could turn it on and turn it off; we've never been talented enough to do that. The hustle, the intensity, and the hunger (on most nights) was just gone this season. We just went through the motions. You can look at injuries, but it seemed every time we we're gonna make a run at the top half of the conference, we'd have a game where we'd fall flat on our faces and takes 6 steps back.
Time to go to ESPN and go over some trade scenarios....
#14
yatpatel
04/27/09 11:29 PM
:(
Let's not put this one on CP3 though. No one else has made a shot all frickin series, so the Nuggs send 3 guys to the paint every time CP takes it to the basket. He kicks it to an open jump shooter, who then misses. Not much more he can do. As for everyone else...
#15
commentcava
04/27/09 11:35 PM
@ Jared
I agree about getting rid of the folks in parentheses, but why keep West, Wright, Armstrong, or Chandler? All of them are part of the problem, too. We need people who want to win and are willing to put in the extra effort it will take to be a championship team. IMO, West, Wright, Armstrong, and Chandler don't fit that bill. Personally, I think David West kills this team more often than he saves it. He'll give you 20 per game...but that's about it. It looks like he thinks his only job is to shoot the ball. He takes the rest of the game off. Wright, bless his heart, has athleticism out the wazoo, but he just can't seem to put it together. Armstrong has put together about 15 good minutes all season long. Lackadasical is a good word to describe him. Chandler is a walking xray, and even when he's healthy, he's not all that. I would keep him before I kept the others though. I don't think anyone will take his contract now anyway. Whatever happens, we need a lot of change, and I'm looking forward to it. Looks like next year will be a "rebuilding year." Ah well, we renewed our tix, so we'll be there for better or worse. I just want to see some friggin effort out there! And I know Chris does, too.
I was also at the game tonight, and to say it was sad is an understatement. And to think we've got to go play in Denver. Sheesh. It should have just ended tonight. The next game should be interesting though. Will we put up any kind of fight? Will we set any new records? It's pointless anyway, half our team won't be wearing hornets jerseys next season.
#16
Jared
04/27/09 11:53 PM
@ commentcava
yeah you're right, get rid of Julian, let's just get rid of another one of our first rounders with a ton of upside. Just like we did with J. R.
Makes a lot of sense...
#17
sdr
04/27/09 11:55 PM
Like I said before and I say it again. Fans are dillusional starting with Joe Block. It's simple. Fire everyone starting with Jeff Bower. Peja is dead weight. Posey is over the hill, Daniels is done, and the rest are a bunch of lazy boys that belong in the golf course not in the basketball. Rebuild the team around Paul, West, and Buttler.
Mr. Shin wants support? GIve me a break!
#18
saltandcarbon
04/27/09 11:58 PM
@GoDallas: Thankyou for trying to buoy the ship - from an outsider and a supporter of a team that got pumped for similar underperformance last year it is noce to hear.
But - with all due respect - I don't think the reaction is out of proportion. The Hornets beat the Mavs last year because they were the more talented team. That same team this year plays like grade schoolers on their home court with the season on the line.
That we have a talented team is exactly why fan reactions aren't out of proportion. We fans were actually relieved about this draw - it as supposed to be a good matchup for us. The roster has oodles of talent - enough to get to the playoffs. But they don't work together. They don't gel or rotate or harden up when they need to. I can handle that state of affairs less than I can handle having no talent on the roster, because it shouldn't be the case.
The Hornets are the new communism: looks good on paper...
#19
HornetSaint83
04/27/09 11:58 PM
You know, I've NEVER heard Byron Scott say "Yeah, this one was on me. My coaching was terrible, and I didn't have the guys prepared." It's always this "We just didn't make shots... the players didn't show up" crap, and I think it's borderline arrogance.
I'm fed up with his doghouses he has for players based on the year. Last year it was Rasual... This year it's MoPete and Juju. This is ridiculous.
David West can't do shut but make 17 foot shots. How the hell can he be an All-Star if he can't post up and make his own shot! He's never taken control of the team either, when CP is down.
I'm tired of this team never coming out aggressive out of the gate. They never go the whole 48 minutes without relinquishing a lead -- even a 2 point lead. Almost every game, even the ones we win, we either get a 10 pt deficit, or blow a 10 point lead before regaining control. Team of pansies -- total softies.
I lost my train a thought, but heads need to roll. I can't defend this team anymore. I don't care CP3 had a bad night. He's on 99% of the time, and bad nights happen. I don't care if Chris Paul is the only player on this team next year. Ship out Chandler and West.
Euthanize this season. Forget game 5.
#20
HornetSaint83
04/27/09 11:59 PM
oh yeah, if Shinn is smart, he'll start with taking out a full page apology in the Times Picayune.
#21
mW
04/28/09 12:01 AM
Okay. Wait. Has no one mentioned that Ryan did the recap? WTH? I thought Nola games were Niall's? I mean, seriously? Haven't we covered the horrible disparity in results based on who does the recap? I knew some cosmic factor was at play. Damn you Hornets247. I'm sure, very sure, David Stern had nothing to do with who wrote this recap. Yeah, right. That's your "official ESPN-affiliated" answer. Bastards.
www.hornetshype.com #22
Mark
04/28/09 12:10 AM
GoDallas: I respect your assessment, but honestly, you probably haven't watched enough Hornets games this season to say that with the utmost confidence. What we saw from tip-off this season is a teetering team that has no direction and confidence in their eyes. For a Dallas analogy, recall '02-03 (if memory serves me right). Remember the 27 point recovery by the Lakeshow in the fourth? This whole season has been just that, except we can't get the 27 point lead in the first place. Nothing ever felt right, and we seem to always be catching up, even to mediocre teams.
But hey, I'm a Mavs fan too (since Dick Motta!), so I'll be rooting for at least one team that will almost assuredly make the second round.
www.dogpile.com/ #23
ticktock6
04/28/09 12:26 AM
Eh, they were still almost a 50-win team and about a month ago we were talking about the third seed. I think some perspective is in order. I'm surely in who-can-we-draft-and-trade-for mode, don't get me wrong, but it's not like there was NO HOPE at any time this year.
hornetshype.com #24
saltandcarbon
04/28/09 12:47 AM
@ Ticktock6: Hope, yes. But how much confidence? The talent on this team should inspire confidence. I remember a lot of "Yeah! We really COULD BE a contender!", but...I dunno.
I guess with the individual careers these guys have had they should be doing better at crunch time. We expected better, but not without reservation. I think. Of course the bitter taste is still too fresh to remember without lashings of grizzle...
#25
NIH87
04/28/09 12:56 AM
@ticktock
50 wins is inflated in the western conference, this team is God awful and you cannot convince me otherwise. Good teams do not consist of two guys taking on 90% of the load for 82 games. That's a two man show which has failed miserably in the playoffs. I was beyond embrassed/pissed/whatever tonight, in fact I was even rooting for denver to get to 60 and double our pt production. this rivals ANYTHING that the Saints have done in their 40 year history. It's time for panic. It's time to be negative. It's imperative to blow this team up over the next 2-3 years.
#26
bigindian15
04/28/09 12:58 AM
I can't read all the comments, I don't have the stomach for it right now. I was checking the score in the fourth quarter, and when I saw it it was NO 55, Denver 111. Yep, they doubled up on us and more. We were watching and HOPING the Nuggets would more than double the Hornets score. Pathetic just isn't strong enough here.
Blame goes everywhere, but especially to Byron and CP. If you're a coach (who has 2 finals appearances and a coach of the year), HOW THE HELL CAN YOU LET THIS HAPPEN??? WHAT DO YOU SAY AFTER THIS LOSS???
And if you're the all star, all pro, future hall of famer, greatest point guard of the generation, HOW THE HELL CAN YOU LET THIS HAPPEN????
I'll say this: I don't think Deron Williams would have let this happen. Yes, that's a shot at CP, I don't care. He HAS to do more if he wants to be a superstar.
Now then, Byron has to be fired. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. He has to be. Must. No excuses.
The only thing I can think of that would be more embarrassing than this loss would be if Denver somehow lost the series. lol...
#27
HornetSaint83
04/28/09 01:00 AM
@ ticktock:
We nearly got LAPPED in a HOME PLAYOFF game. If that doesn't tell you that the Hornets quit, then I don't know what will. Their performance is indefensible. No PLAYOFF team loses by 58 when trying hard. If they did, playoff and -58 is an oxymoron. David West is probably one of the worst AllStars ever. I can't remember him ever picking up the team when Paul was down. He can't post up. He can't create a shot. All he can do is make jumpers from the top of the key. It's great to be optimistic, but I have a right to complain and call them out when they don't even show up. Yes, the Hornets CAN DO (and have done) wrong to their fans.
#28
Andrea
04/28/09 01:02 AM
I was checking to see who becomes free agents this summer and there are some cheap (but solid) role players we could look at. Just to name a few: Zaza Pachulia, Flip Murray, Eddie House, Von Wafer, Rasho Nesterovic, etc.
#29
ticktock6
04/28/09 01:04 AM
50 wins is inflated in the WEST? I'm sorry, I don't see it. The East has three .500 or below teams in the playoffs. That's just an untrue statement. And when you have a Top 4 superstar is not the ideal time to blow things up. Blowing too much up ie: a slow rebuild is the worst thing they could do.
No one rational judges anything by one game. If tonight accentuated things you already thought and flaws you already saw, fine. Say that. But I know it's hard to see it as one game-- the fact remains that it IS one game.
Saltandcarbon's "communism: looks good on paper" line is pretty much perfect.
hornetshype.com #30
ticktock6
04/28/09 01:06 AM
Hornet Saint-- if you were rational right now, you'd remember the plenty of times David West carried this team this season. I think some of you need to get a night's sleep.
hornetshype.com #31
Taquito
04/28/09 01:08 AM
its really sad man, last year was so great and this year has been so disappointing in so many ways, what pisses me off the most is saying that my favorite team that ive been following for over 12 years scored less than 70 points in a win or die playoff game, and I say win or die because i dont see how we can win any of the games left.
This is on everyone, from Byron to CP, everybody loves Chris but if youre the leader of a team you have to lead by example, and tonight's showing was atrocious
#32
QueenBee
04/28/09 01:08 AM
Deron Williams? What the h*ll did Deron Williams do tonight to keep his team from going fishing? He was laying a huge egg out there and Sloan took him out and Ronnie Price and Millsap almost single handedly brought the Jazz back. I've often wished CP had Deron's teammates though. Haha.
#33
NIH87
04/28/09 01:09 AM
@ ticktock
Yes, 49 wins is inflated. Especially in the WC were there is ONE elite team, any body can beat anybody.
I'm not just judging this by one game, we've been blown out of three of the four playoff games and have lost 9 out of 12 overall. Peja is aging and has a chronic injury, TC as well, Mo doesn't play, Posey is only going to get older, West looks awful right now, Butler is just a role player, etc. This roster will never go anywhere. and that's unfair to a player of paul's caliber. He deserves better. When I say blow it up, I mean everyone outside of CP is expendable.
#34
ticktock6
04/28/09 01:13 AM
Anyone can beat anyone in the league. I'm not buying it. We play a large number or games against the strongest division in the NBA (did another one have 4 playoff teams?)
Saying everyone is expendable is fine. Trading too many people at once would be rather disastrous chemistry-wise. They'd all have to relearn each other and everyone's game. I prefer a more moderated retooling.
hornetshype.com #35
QueenBee
04/28/09 01:13 AM
CP can only do so much. How quickly people forget about how CP basically carried this team while main players were out injured for most of the season and still managed to get them in the playoffs in the Wild Western Conference. CP has to lead by example? That's basically all the guy has ever done. Have you ever heard that saying "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink"? I know what it is. People here are going around to other forums and people (mainly the haters) are bagging on CP and you guys are buying into it. I knew after CP playing so many minutes this season would catch up with him. Even Charles and company on TNT said he's worn down. Chris Webber said nobody has had to carry a team the way Wade and CP has and it's true.
#36
Andrea
04/28/09 01:14 AM
@QueenBee: I've often dreamt of that too. We'd probably be the ones with the 3-1 lead in the series right now.
#37
QueenBee
04/28/09 01:16 AM
I'm with ticktock6. The entire roster doesn't need to be blown up. We need a little retooling and for heavens sakes some GOOD HEALTH! When we were healthy last year everyone saw how good of a team this is. If some armchair GM's had a hold of the team we'd probably have a different roster every month.
#38
QueenBee
04/28/09 01:17 AM
@Andrea, no doubt. Deron has always had better teammates than CP, even dating back to college.
#39
ticktock6
04/28/09 01:20 AM
Look at DENVER one year ago. Weren't they swept? Players in the postgame saying "We were embarrassed. We quit." They made one move. One. (Well, 2, but the other was a salary-dumping move that they didn't get anyone back for.) And reimagined their entire team. I mean, the Enver jokes are pretty much dead. They have to be after this series.
It wasn't three billion moves. It was one right one.
And they didn't make it the night after they got swept and everyone was despondent either. Slow your roll.
hornetshype.com #40
QueenBee
04/28/09 01:22 AM
@Andrea, Julian needs to develop a bit more but he could possibly be our Ronnie Brewer. The shooting guard spot has always been our weakest position and you would think that wouldn't be the case seeing as while he wasn't THE BEST shooting guard but Scott was a pretty good shooting guard with the Showtime Lakers so you would think they'd know how to find the perfect player for that spot. Someone that's not scared to slash to the rim. Kind of like a Trevor Ariza or a Travis Outlaw. An athletic 2 or 3 is what this team needs. I'm not a basketball player but these last few games I keep wondering why the h*ll West isn't taking Nene or Kenyon's a** to the rack every rip. Cut out all the finesse crap and go to work.
#41
NIH87
04/28/09 01:24 AM
You guys do realize that we probably won't have a healthy year with this current roster again? TC and Peja suffer from chronic injuries, which will likely worsen over time. Not to mention all the other old players who will become more and more fragile. This roster needs to be rebuilt outside of cp, not re-tooled.
#42
QueenBee
04/28/09 01:24 AM
@ticktock6, good points on Denver. I know people are upset but it's never good to make moves too hastily. I'm going to bed on that note.
#43
QueenBee
04/28/09 01:27 AM
All I know is I'm glad I don't have Bower's job. Or any other GM's job for that matter.
#44
Roc217
04/28/09 01:28 AM
ROFLMAO @ people going on a tangent on CP. Who the hell carried this team the whole damn season? This guy is getting pummeled by denver's defense and no one is making it easier by bricking shots and looking like statues on the court. If they don't score without him, defending this team is a cinch. Take the ball out of his hands and watch them crumble.....oh wait that's exactly what's happened.
CP played horrible no doubt, but to blame him for the ineptitude of his teamates is unfair. Byron I dont give the benefit of the doubt to because he has no clue what to do and if your freakin coach dont know what to do how do you expect the players to?
This team needs to trade some of their non-shooting shooters for a playmaker. CP and this team cannot do this again next season.
#45
Andrea
04/28/09 01:29 AM
My question is what changed? From last postseason to now, what has changed about this team?
Obviously injuries were a big factor but when this team was moderately healthy (which wasn't often), did anyone ever get that feeling that "this is the team that won 50+ games last year"? Regardless of who was in the lineup, I never felt it. Last year, it was about playing together, showing some hustle, and refusing to lose. We won a lot of games last year just because we wanted it more on some nights. If you didn't watch last season, you look at the roster and think "How did these guys win 56 games" then you'd watch and you'd understand. We were never the most talented team, but we did the little things to bring in a W.
Obviously Tyson is injured and we have a lot of guys banged up but no matter what, we wouldn't have lost by 58 points to anybody last year. We just wouldn't let it happen. So what's really going on? I find it hard to believe that only injuries has plagued us this year.
#46
Mark
04/28/09 01:52 AM
ticktock: Yes, health and making that ONE right trade is enough to push you to a contender (I wouldn't say the Nugs are, but that's another story), but that's what we're lacking. Health is out of our control, but I was skeptical in the signing of the Pose. I was a big advocate of a low-post threat or mobile shooter (Money Mike!), but we made a move for a defensive specialist and clutch 3 shooter.
The Pose has bailed us out plenty o' times this season for me to justify in him as a good signing, but it's still not what I expected we required to get to the level we were hyped to be. The fears we've expressed this entire season have just caught us off guard and culminated to this one game. Unfortunate, but with rose-tinted glasses, obviously there was something always awry.
As long as we're able to keep CP and get some value in trades, I don't think we should have to resort to rebuilding mode. But whatever. Series technically isn't over, so we'll see if we still have heart for game 5. Back-against-the-wall, go out and give hell! Geaux bees!
www.dogpile.com/ #47
Akademik_Hooligan
04/28/09 01:52 AM
Looks Like Bill Simmons was right about us all season. I didn't have time to post to defend him a few days ago, but when I read through the posts, people were getting upset at Young Fella for his criticisms, but guess what, he was right too.
I am so ashamed - and I kept up with the team through that 18-64 season, because I knew it was an issue of having a lack of talent.
Byron has to go - the team quit ON HIM. I don't care if he won coach of the year last year, I think everything just clicked for us last season and fell into place for the perfect Cinderella story - this year was time for him to prove he earned that award with us battling injuries, and he came up with NOTHING. For me the alarm bells were set ringing when we lost that home game to Portland and CP3 went down, and Byron had Antonio Daniels trying to run the same offensive schemes that only Chris Paul can handle.
I'd still keep West. He wasn't 100% for this either, and it's easy to blame him. HE'S OUR ONLY OTHER SCORER. Remember him dropping 40 on the the road to the Lakers? Or how about his 38-14-5-5-2 in game 5 against the Spurs last year despite his ailing back? A fellow blogger who is a Heat fan noted way back in December, when we played on the road to the Celtics:
"David West played very well and worked extremely hard for his points. Against another defence he would have dropped 40! One of the most well earned 20 point games by any player this season.
In the end though, the Hornets have no depth at all and that's what's gonna kill you guys."
Paul & West played far too many minutes this season and they simply ran out of Gas. They're only human after all. Blame the Coach for failing to come up with ANYTHING that would relieve the pressure on them throughout the year.
Blame Bower & Scott who between them decided that Pargo, Birdman, Brandon Bass etc. weren't worth keeping. Byron's 1-dimensional manner + Bowers ineptness meant that Ageing Perimeter shooters with so-so Defense were offered ridiculous contracts. Our best 2 players, 2 all-stars (who've both been in the league for at least 4 seasons) are going to earn around only $25million between them next season, and yet we're still fighting Salary cap issues? How is this? Bower needs to go as well.
We're better off blowing stuff up and taking the hit for a year or 2, CP & West are still worth 35-40 wins by themselves.
#48
mhartzold
04/28/09 01:58 AM
Midway through the 1st quarter, some gross, weird seat jumper stepped into my row from the one behind to take the empty chair next to mine. I don't care about that sort of thing, at all. Sit wherever you want, I don't give a damn. This rant is not about squatter's rights. As he put his gargantuan, dirty, white sneakered hoof onto the floor of MY row, he kicked over my 90% full, $9 cup of Abita with absolutely no acknowledgment of his most heinous trespass.
I was already fairly filled w/angst from a situation involving friends and tickets and a lack of communication prior to the game, so I could very well have taken out my frustrations and been cruel as hell to this schlub. But, I bit my tongue. I didn't say anything and listened to this guy fart and belch all game, while stuffing his face with some sort of strange nacho creation he appeared to have developed on his own via several different Arena food vendors. I listened to this maggot scream random bursts of 'Defense!' and 'Yeah!', or 'Shoot the Three', all the while wanting to punch him in the face for having kicked over my beer.
Then I began thinking, "Maybe this guy is an apparition." Maybe everyone in the Arena has a hulking, smelly, gaseous dweeb who just kicked over their beer sitting next to them right now. Maybe its like that movie 'It's a Wonderful Life' and this guy is actually my guardian angel. Maybe, every time New Orleans bricks a jumper, an angel gets its wings. Maybe someone is about to come by and pinch me because I must be dreaming to see such a pathetic display on the court in front of me. Peja makes how much?!! Mo-Pete makes how much???!!! Julian Wright is on the bench because...why??!! I could type for hours. I'm done.
#49
CW
04/28/09 02:40 AM
Even though I'm a huge Spurs fan, I wouldn't blow up this team. Other than the Lakers, there's not a more feared opponent for SA (and others) than the Hornets. Consider:
Chandler plays some of the best D on Duncan in the league. West kills us-- every time. His mid-range shot is incredible, and if you stick him he'll drive and score. We have a much easier time defending Dirk in Dallas.
Peja keeps us honest.
And what can be said about CP? The pre-eminent point guard in this league-- he's only going to get better.
You guys do miss Pargo. Too bad that one got away. He was instant offense and a lift to the team.
You guys just need to get healthy. I remember a few years ago when everyone gave up on Peja-- he was hurt too much. If he's well (big IF, I know-- same I fear with our star Manu), he improves your team considerably.
Fact is, your whole team had an off night-- and in coincided with Denver having a on night. It happens. Even in the playoffs.
Though the Spurs are probably not going to make it to the next round, I was routing for Denver as I really didn't want to see us try and beat NO. We've always had a much easier time with the Nuggets.
That said, I'll certainly be routing for the Hornets next game, if nothing but to save some dignity for what IMO is a really good team.
#50
Dariusz Ejkiewicz
04/28/09 02:43 AM
Still atleast one more game left :)
www.ejkiewicz.com #51
chefcdb
04/28/09 04:43 AM
This series was doomed once we realized David West couldn't get it going. Yet I will say to the DX haters, "Shut up." Saying stuff like he only shoots from the top of the key, plays no defense, etc. just points out angry ignorance of the qualities of the game that matter. It can be argued that big time All-Stars should never be consistently shut down through an entire series, no matter who's guarding him or what scheme is used to limit his production, and I would have difficulty trying to defend what's happened with West without it sounding like a litany of excuses: Chandler's lack of lateral movement and leaping ability affects the way they play D together because a flat-footed, no shot blocking Tyson cripples our interior defense since West is already no leaper; lack of floor spacing because we can't count on hitting from 3 gives Denver more incentive to load up in the paint to stop CP and DX; etc.
The fact is for us to be competitive in this series, West has to rise above the litany and get it done, and the coaching adjustment to achieve that has been haphazard and fragmented. I still believe it's stupid to turn on West and cry that he's some terrible underachiever. Talking smack about CP is even dumber. Yes, this was a historic blowout of epic proportions, and boards like this are places to vent and openly discuss the failings of this edition of the Hornets. There will be a whole summer to discuss the "what to do next" scenarios.
I think this series openly shows that we need more athleticism and slashing to the rim in next year's Hornets. At the very least, we need another creative ball handler with some size who can penetrate or hit from downtown. I also have become frustrated with our lack of effective play from center and backup power forward. Sure Poz can get us some minutes as a 4 guy when we needed to go small, which has happened way too much this year, but to only be able to say that Sean Marks has been our most consistent big after DX is a damning indictment.
I was lucky to have been too busy setting up my new restaurant to have caught this game until after halftime, which I watched for about 3 minutes, and turned it off. I'm aggravated and sad about the way this team limped into the playoffs like a whooped dog, and in the end it's not surprising we've played so poorly. I had hoped Tyson could play with the same spark he had right after the trade fell apart, but now I find myself watching Joe Smith drain jumpers and play some pretty good D for the Cavs and wishing we had his mercenary talents for our playoff run. Which I confess I hate to admit because I still believe that a healthy Chandler is the key to this team, but a frustrated, diminished version is really a huge ball-and-chain drag.
While I agree more with tt6 that we need to get a targeted player who can give the Hornets an infusion that lifts what we have here, I have to wonder what will happen. I don't think a coaching change will be made, in part because we are also so far over into luxury tax threshold that ownership doesn't need to chew more dead money, but there's no way to minimize the dreadful impact of playing your last home game in a historic playoff implosion down 55 points. All I know is that because we never generated any sort of consistent offense when CP wasn't in the game, we wound up burning out our two best players and never developed any resilience from anybody besides Sean Marks and Rasual Butler, both of those guys posted career seasons, but it seemed that Hilton and Juju regressed more than they improved.
While I will be shocked if the Hornets steal Game 5, I do expect a competitve game and that they make it a close game. If the Hornets are blown out again, that starts the team down the path to the unacceptable where bigger changes could be contemplated.
chefcdb.livejournal.com #52
JoJo
04/28/09 05:39 AM
Just a quick note before I go to bed after drinking away the pain all night long.
If this were the regular season then Posey, Chandler and Peja would all be sitting down. Don't hate on those guys for playing hurt, hate on Byron Scott for playing guys who are clearly injured. Granted they could have played better, but it's really on Byron.
I honestly can't believe how bad he is sometimes... Where is Hilton Armstrong? Where is Julian Wright? Where is MoP? Why is Peja playing when he can't make a shot? Why is Tyson plying when he can't play D, can't rebound, can't score and is getting a foul every 2 minutes? Why do you not put a center in when you take Tyson out half the time? Why don't you call timout when the other team is on a roll? Why did you let Anderson go? Why did we draft a guy out of high school if we didn't want to let him mature on our team?
I'm so upset... I went to 40 home games for this?
Does anyone else think that playoff tickets should be given for free to season ticket holders? It's really bull@$@$ that they aren't.
#53
Dmon3k
04/28/09 06:19 AM
I said it in another thread and many have mentioned it here, but I think Byron needs to go. He doesn't really coach anymore, and instead relies on the fact that he has the best pg in the league to bail him out. We haven't seen anything resembling that Princeton offense for a while.
Oh and this quote from CP3 doesn't make me feel good
"Understand that while it was embarrassing and they beat us pretty bad, it still was only one game."
-- Hornets guard Chris Paul after New Orleans was routed by Denver
You can say that after being blown out in game 1. Maybe even after the loss in Game 2. But when you get that kind of beatdown in Game 4 on your HOME court I think you should be showing a little more fire and passion. This is when he should have said what Carmelo did that they quit, plain and simple.
Here's hoping Game 5 will be competitive so they have another chance to redeem themselves at the Hive
#54
CP3ISTHEMVP
04/28/09 07:58 AM
I have been a hornets fan all my life and it kills me 2 say this i reckon we play some of fringe players 4 game 5, sit west, chandler & peja and pack up 4 next season. other den paul, butler, chandler and marks we shud trade the whole team and start again, again, again. We as a team shud not have let pargo or "birdman" go. i also agree wit da hornets players gettin 2gether as team and paying the fans back 4 der disgrace
#55
awesomejohnson
04/28/09 09:04 AM
My take:
(1) Chris Paul is not to blame for this team's lack of effort...the majority of the effort that got us here was his...his skills and drive gave us the opportunity to play playoff basketball...I would be a lot less forgiving if he hadn't played 46 minutes in Game 3 and if he wasn't the only person playing with drive in the first quarter...the first few minutes of this game resembled the first few of G3...the difference is that CP3 began making shots then, but couldn't tonight...Marks and Posey sparked us in G3 but couldn't last night...
(2) All this talk about blowing up this team is stupid...CHANGES NEED TO BE MADE to the player personnel definitely...simply, we need more bodies that we can use in games...all team sports are about matchup problems...we need players that have specialty skills that are hard to defend...CP3 has ball control skills and vision that are unmatched, so he usually doesn't get outperformed...I'd even say that he makes others better (how else could Sean Marks get three dunks in G3?)...DWest matches up better against less athletic players (DUH!), but he has struggled against more aggressive defenders...bottom line, the GM has to put matchup problems on this squad that we can exploit, and then the coach has to exploit them...which brings me to...
(3) Coach Scott...I understand that you're a former laker and you've got your pride and your award and your this and your that...but to be an effective coach is to make adjustments and to use EVERY TOOL IN YOUR ARSENAL to give your team a chance to win...If you send all 12 bodies out there and have tried every scheme you can dream up, then I'm ok with that because you left nothing in the bag...but leaving 4 PAID players on the bench all of G3 and until scrub time in G4 is UNACCEPTABLE...hedging your bets on a worn down CP3 and force-feeding DWest and Peja have been unsuccessful thus far...AND YOU DON'T HAVE A WHOLE SH*TLOAD OF TIME TO CORRECT IT, EITHER!!!!...(sorry, I'm upset at him, can you tell?)...for Bob Cousy's sake, try something else!!! New Orleans NEEDS you to...While I won't go as far as saying it's time for you to go, I won't be terribly upset if you are...unless you can coach us out of this hole you've coached us into...
(4) I haven't given up on this team yet...I won't until we've lost a fourth game in a series...whether that's Wednesday, the following game, or sometime in June...but, as a displaced New Orleanian that can't be there, but would love to, this team and the Saints are necessary extensions of me...when they do bad, I do bad...when they are up, I'm up...It's hard to be rational after a game like this one or like when the Saints lost to the Vikings last October even though Reggie Bush returned two punts for touchdowns...but they are all i've got...I can be fans of other individuals...I can't be a fan of another team...it doesn't feel right...so, I will fan up...I requested Wednesday night off weeks ago, and (is the game on national TV?) I plan to watch it...until the end...no matter how far they get down...the only broadcast I found last night was an online stream of a Denver Nuggets broadcast and if I made it through that, then the true fans of the Hornets can support them until they've had their last dribble...I, for one, will FAN UP...from afar...
#56
passingby
04/28/09 09:47 AM
I just hope this team bounces back.
This game just shows a lot of wrong moves this organization made.
Posey is not worth the money they gave him. That's why Boston let him go, they maybe hurting without him, but still, he's not worth the whole midlevel exception!
The Hornet's as we all know, isn't one of the richest teams in the NBA. Trying to dump contracts, getting financial aid, sure signs of a failing team. They dont have the staff to do what other teams are doing. Their scouts aren't as good as say, the Rockets, seeing Von Wafer from FA.
First of, they need to lose Chandler and Stojakovic. Everyone was surprised at how Peja was healthy last season, which was obviously a fluke.
They should build this team kinda like how the Heat is built now (a superstar, couple of young talent, a mix of vets, GOOD 3-pt shooters, uptempo with a bit of D emphasized)
#57
commentcava
04/28/09 09:48 AM
Jared,
I don't have a problem with JuJu per se. Hell, I've got his wallpaper on my laptop. I'm just not sold on him. When juju wasn't getting any pt, people on here were freaking out. Then, once he started playing, he didn't play that well. That pretty much shut everybody up about playing Jullian. I will say it's probably not his fault. Maybe if we had a coach who could utilize an individual player's talent, JuJu could be great - for us. As long as Scott is around they're going to have to get players that fit exactly into his scheme. I just think he's too rigid and not creative enough to take 10 guys and get the best out of them as players and as a team. Personally, I wonder if Scott did to this team what he did to the Nets. It seems like his overbearing style would get old.
#58
Caleb462
04/28/09 10:07 AM
Man... I went to this game. It was a first for me. I'd never been to the Arena before, never seen *any* pro basketball game live much less my beloved Hornets. My brother who lives in NO got me tickets for my birthday (yesterday)... and I was pumped! And I end up witnessing THIS?!?! Ugh. I've never seen a pro team play worse.
neworleansbasketball.blogspot.com #59
Nugz Junkie
04/28/09 10:57 AM
Hey guys...Nuggets fan here. I am be all means not trying to troll. I have read through many of the comments on this page, and want to say be patient with your team. Us Nuggets fans have been in the same position as you feel 5 years running now. The fact of the matter is NOH may not yet have the proper pieces to be elite. I am not sure Denver does either, but we are definitely closer than ever before. But it does only take a prudent move or two to get there. You have a superstar in CP3 and a good role guy in West (I just cannot get myself to call him an All-Star as I feel he is a bit overrated at times). But you have some good pieces.
But here is the deal...you ran into the wrong team at the wrong time. Denver matches up well with the Hornets, sure that has helped. But...Denver has a GIGANTIC chip on their shoulder after what has happened in the 5 previous playoffs (one and done). So not only are the a much better team this year, they are playing inspired basketball. They have a lot to prove, and are proving it. The Hornets are beat up, and came into the postseason on a low. Next year could be a whole different ball game. So all I am saying is sometimes it has less to do with your team as it does with the opposing team enforcing it's will. Denver had to have this series...and they are going out to snag it.
#60
gsmith
04/28/09 11:23 AM
My take is up after covering the game.
http://www.examiner.com/x-3619-New-Orleans-Sports-Examiner~y2009m4d28-Hornets-cooked-after-halfbaked-effort
#61
DawgSarge
04/28/09 11:36 AM
It's 12 hours later and I'm still in a daze. 58 points? I think the Nuggets are the better team this series, no doubt...but 58 points better?!? The most troubling thing for me is that Byron Scott did...nothing! The dude shows no emotion whatsoever....just stands there with his arms folded! It's a bit disconcerting to see when the team is getting BLASTED on our homecourt.
As for D-West, I can only hope that someone pulls him aside and reminds him that he has to play on BOTH ends of the court. It's bad enough to suck defensively, but when your shot is WAY off the mark as his has been over the last month of the season, relaxing on D is not the way to endear yourself to the team or the fans. I'd love to sit here and blame all of this on the injuries, and it was a brutal year in that department, but almost every team in the playoffs (except the Cavs) had to deal with injuries.
My only consolation is that we didn't get swept, and the Jazz got eliminated before we did...LOL!! I really hope that the Hornets come out in game 5 and warrior-up! If they're gonna lose, at least go out on your shield...
maybe we can get Drew Brees to lead them in the "THIS...IS...NEW...ORLEANS!!" cheer....
#62
420ftJesus
04/28/09 11:56 AM
The Hornets let New Orleans down, and then New Orleans let the Hornets down.
We, the fans, and done alot ot ensure we keep our boys, and now that we're not playing lights out they're a disgrace and aren't worthy of our time when they need us the most?
The last thing CP, D, etc. are going to remember from the arena may be that it was empty for more than a quarter. I hope instead that they remember the few fans who stayed, and partied, and waited above their tunnel.
I stayed to the end. I had fun. I yelled refs suck after fouls got called and I know they heard me. I yelled, "Sean, I'm still here." I tried to get on dance cam (I had about 200 people to complete with and was armed with e 3 year old and couldn't though).
You should've stayed, too.
Yeah, you. (channeling Bob Breck here)
The score and the Nuggets will the the boys WHAT they need to do better. We need to be there to show them WHY they need to do it.
In Notes from Underground, Dostoyevsky's Underground Man says that when a man has a toothache, he moans NOT because it hurts, but because he wants people to feel as bad as he does. We should resist this, but 17000 people couldn't. I understand, but that doesn't make it the best course of action.
Maybe I'm just stupid.
But I'm not as stupid as the people who stayed when they were down 40 but left when they were down 45. Can anyone explain to me what line was crossed to break that insane version of hope?
Leave at 40 down or stay to end, please, for my frayed ends of sanity.
#63
Caleb462
04/28/09 12:07 PM
Uh, I really don't think anyone should be ragged on for leaving early. Generally... I'd be with you on that, but not this time. Of course, I was one of the people who left early... but I had a 3 hour drive home to Lake Charles and had to get up for work in the morning.
For the people who stayed - you are awesome, good on you. For the people who left, like me... no shame. You payed money to see *playoff* basketball, and you got a 20 point loss, then a 30 point loss, then 40... then 50...
"now that we're not playing lights out they're a disgrace and aren't worthy of our time when they need us the most?"
Not playing lights out? A bit of an understatement no?
neworleansbasketball.blogspot.com #64
420ftJesus
04/28/09 05:59 PM
It's as much an understatement saying they weren't shooting lights out as calling the team a disgrace is an over-reaction. Agreed.
It's just some rhetoric. That's fair on my part.
I don't blame any one person for leaving, I was mostly saying (nicely) that it'd probably be more effective to have 17000 people staring at them in silence in terms of getting into their heads as a motive to improve (one can consider this `punsihment' just as some consider leaving to be the same).
It's not really a public display if no one is there to see it. Some were there, but nowhere near a critical mass to really drill the point home.
It'd be nice to have a "We did our part, when are you going to do yours" moment after the game, but this opportunity was missed.
No offense was meant, of course.
#65
commentcava
04/28/09 06:10 PM
420,
I take issue with your assertion. We left early. So what? We're supposed to stand there and support that pathetic display with our presence? This is not agape, long suffering love we're talking about here. I am not their parents and they are not my kids. I actually hope the image of the empty arena stays with them for a long long time. Nothing sends a better signal that they need to change their ways. It's pathetic to watch professional athletes perform like that. Like I read somewhere else, if I went into work and put up a performance like that, I'd be fired. It's the same kind of deal here. There's a contract that exists between teams and fans. The team should put forth its best effort because it's the fans that pay their salaries. They have a responsibility to do so. When the team doesn't put up any effort (they don't have to win in my book, just put up effort) they don't uphold their end of the bargain. In effect, I've paid to see nothing, and at 75 bucks a ticket that aint good enough. My leaving was meant to send a message. Play like crap with no EFFORT, you won't get my money. If we went out and played our hearts out and got beat by 58, I think your assertion makes sense, but last night was utterly ridiculous.
#66
saltandcarbon
04/28/09 07:09 PM
@ mhartzold: Brilliant.
#67