I was watching the Conference Finals a bit over the weekend, and I had a funny thought I figured I'd share.
Where did all the power forwards go?
Seriously. In this round of the playoffs, every team but the Lakers field a set of fours that don't exactly provide a complete set of those skills normally associated with Power Forwards. Even the Lakers usually shift Pau Gasol to the center position for most of the game. The Cavs and Nuggets run out defensive specialists and offensive non-entities in Kenyon Martin and Anderson Varejao, and the Magic feel no need to play a Power Forward at all with Dwight Howard in the middle, instead running out Rashard Lewis and his 5.7 rebounds a game.
It's not just the playoff teams either. I was trying to figure out what Power Forwards in the league I'd be willing to trade the 28-year old David West for, and only Chris Bosh was a clear "yes". Pau Gasol probably. Outside of that, no one else was a lock. Amare Stoudemire is a whiner. Boozer has issues, both injury-wise and other. Nowitzki, Garnett and Duncan are all the wrong side of thirty. So is Antawn Jamison.
LaMarcus Aldridge? Maybe, but there have been a few red flags about how touchy he can be. I love Horford's toughness, but the Hornets need more scoring in the frontcourt. David Lee? Paul Millsap? Kevin Love? I'd love to have them, but they haven't proven anything and I'm not sold they'd be an upgrade and provide the Hornets with what they need.
It's pretty weird really. Just think back six or seven years ago, and it was the era of the Power Forwards in the league. At one point there were stars Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Chris Webber, Dirk Nowitzki, Rasheed Wallace, Elton Brand, and Ben Wallace. Kenyon Martin and Jermaine O'Neal were near the top of their games. There were even high-level scoring power forwards like Antawn Jamison, Antoine Walker, and Keith Van Horn. That's twelve guys all just starting or into their prime at the position. To cap it off, Karl Malone was still floating around, playing at a pretty high level too.
Now, typically I'm one of those people who roll their eyes when hearing stuff about "how the game has changed". Every retired player and fan remember when players played in an era that was tougher than the one today. Every player remembers the good ol days when fundamentals were sound, mid-range jumpers were pure, and the game was played the "right way." It's the same type of tripe that gets spewed in politics about the good ol' days when people didn't sleep around or do drugs and refrained from violence - but when you study history you realize how ridiculous those claims are.
Still, I wonder if the smaller number of traditional power forwards - and centers for that matter - is perhaps an indication of a real trend. Insiders have said for a while that the NBA has been trying to head for a more exciting, perimeter-oriented, maybe even euro-inspired, brand of basketball. This could be an early indicator that their policies are working . . .
. . . Or, it could just be that really tall people with the agility, speed, and skills of NBA players are kinda rare, and we've just encountered a small lull in available talent. Whichever floats your boat.


21 remarkable comments post your own
Andrea
05/25/09 11:17 PM
I'd trade West for Chris Bosh, Dirk Nowitzki (even though he's over 30), or Scola and nobody else.
#1
Mark
05/26/09 12:16 AM
From what little I know of him, I would trade DX for Al Jefferson.
www.dogpile.com/ #2
TopherPrice
05/26/09 12:23 AM
I think the lack of quality big men in the NBA also is due in part to the nerfing of the positions strong suits in favor of more flashy offensive output. "Back in the day," big men clogged up the paint and made life hell for anyone who tried to get to the basket. However, you would not get to see the orgasmic love for LBJ, Kobe, and CP3 (admittedly without the aformentioned orgasmic gushing) if you allowed real defense like they did back then. In our current NBA we have the defensive 3 second, the protected area under the basket, and the NFL inspired 1.5 (really 2) steps and it's not a travel rule. All of these changes have made the traditional big man defensive skill sets almost a liability. I am not saying that a few exceptionally talented guys can make a huge impact, but they are just fewer and farther between. This is why people give players like D-West a pass for their defense shortcomings. It's just so much more glaring how much of a soft spot the 4 has become when there is not the offensive output a player like David brings.
I was watching some old game film of Pete Maravich the other night, and man it is amazing just how different the officiating was in that time. Charges were called all the time. TRAVELING was called ALL the TIME! You never saw the guys complain either. They knew the rule. Pick up the ball and take a step... start walking the other direction as you just turned it over. These two factors along with the ability to stay in the paint allowed the 4 spot to be a major factor in those games.
This factored into the offensive side of the ball as well. Because they helped the 5 lock down the paint, as they could stay there and do so, when on the offensive side of the ball they had to help with the screens for the slashing guards. This obviously left them somewhat open for catch and shoot, but they too had to dribble if they were not in an easy layup zone.
This requires a different skillset than a 4 today: Get in position and make a non dribble move around your guy. It is just hard to find 7 foot tall guys with the skill set of a small forward or shooting guard. It is like the center is now the closest thing to a 70's and 80's power forward, and there are should be no "centers".
Sadly this changing of the game is what makes professional basketball a sport that is not historically translatable to the present like some other sports. It really is a microcosm of modern American Society. Ever-changing, exciting, feigning nostalgia while really being enamored with how the new is better than the old.
Oh, and get ready to really see the big man become useless, when the NBA gives LBJ the lovers gift of the non travel call on the "crab-dribble." When you can just pick the ball up like a fullback and cover 15+ feet of court in what would be the newly legal 2 (really 3, watch the video) steps, no matter how tall you are you will be a liability if you cant move like a puma.
#3
Ryan Schwan
05/26/09 12:48 AM
Scola is good. But he's actually older than West - and I don't think he's an upgrade.
Jefferson plays center - and so far he's been on two really bad teams. In Boston, he even had Paul Pierce, and they were still terrible.
The traveling can be pretty bad, yeah. We'll see if some new power forwards crop up. I guess Beasley and Blake Griffin have the potential to be pretty snazzy PFs.
www.hornets247.com #4
bigindian15
05/26/09 01:27 AM
Yeah, new generation PF's have to be much more agile than guys like Duncan, Brand, or even D West. Guys like Rashard Lewis, Tyrus Thomas, and LaMarcus Aldridge are the new breed because they can do it all and are versatile enough to play a fast tempo game.
Another problem is that the typical power forwards probably deal with injuries more now because they are coddled too much in high school and college and aren't ready for the NBA. Some of the guys you mentioned - Chris Webber, Carlos Boozer, Jermaine O'Neal, Elton Brand, etc - dealt with injuries (or are still dealing with them) and those type of guys would probably be brought up as centers now to play down low so they didn't have to stress their knees so much in the post.
But about this year's conference finals, I kinda disagree. Pau Gasol is playing out of position, he's really more suited as a center. Lamar Odom should start as PF (he's another new generation guy). I think Kenyon Martin is a good PF, he does all the dirty work, plays stellar defense, and he can hit the 15 foot jump shot. In the east, Rashard is a solid 4 because he can work in the post and can defend other teams' PFs. The only team that doesn't have one is Cleveland (I can't even think of who starts there for them - is it LeBron?) because they have Mr. Chosen One and he really operates at all 5 positions and guards the crappiest offensive player on the other team (like how he's guarding Rafer Alston in this Orlando series) to save energy on defense, even though Hedo and Shard are torching them in the 4th (ladies and gentleman, your 2009 MVP!)
#5
Vernon
05/26/09 01:28 PM
I would trade West for:
Pau, Bosh, Aldridge and Stoudemire
Pau and Bosh are both better, Aldridge is nearly as good and will be better.
And with Stoudemire, hes definitely better than West offensively, as bad defensively with the potential to be far better oh and younger. Despite his attitude problems id still take him.
Nowitzki is a difficult one, hes only two years older and far better in all areas, however this age is a problem with the rest of the current Hornets nucleus being fairly young (excluding Peja who will be gone in, at most, 2 seasons). So i would have West over him.
I would say yes to Boozer only if he shows hes over his injury problems, he is a year younger and a better overall player afterall
#6
CarnbY
05/26/09 06:24 PM
Even though Al Jefferson plays a lot of C, he should be included. I'd trade D.West for him in a heartbeat. I don't think anyone has mentioned Zach Randolph, he was amazing this season before getting injured. I can't remember anything about his injury, so there's my caveat, but I assume he'll be back at full strength next season?
Bosh and Amare are also a yes for me, and a maybe for David Lee since he's a little younger... I actually like D.W., but he's gotta improve his defense in the off season or I'll end up throwing something heavy through my TV next season :P
#7
Justin Ruiz
05/26/09 06:31 PM
For what it's worth on Jefferson, he's the real deal. I watched several Wolves games this year before he got hurt, and he showed a huge arsenal of post moves, with production that went up in the fourth quarter of closes games. He doesn't fold under pressure, he puts up a reliable 20-12 every night, and only he and Dwight Howard are capable of multiple 30-20 nights in a season. The Wolves did great to bring him back in exchange for KG. And the Wolves would be fools to send him out in favor of West... the Hornets would have had to pull the trigger on that before McHale was nudged out of the front office.
#8
Bryant
05/26/09 07:23 PM
Jefferson is a PF who's been forced to play center on one bad team, which is one reason it were bad. On the 2006-2007 Celtics, let's see... OK, he started 33 games at PF and 27 games at center, so you have a point there. But his natural position is PF.
(They won more games with him starting at center, fwiw, but the sample size is tiny and Pierce was out a big chunk of that year.)
One of the relatively common starting lineups that year was Jefferson, Perkins, Rondo, Pierce, and Delonte West. Which looks a lot better this year than it did back then. How times change.
#9
Caleb462
05/26/09 07:43 PM
Dirk still has a couple of solid years in him. Dude was putting up 30 - 40 almost every night in the playoffs. So yeah I'd gladly take him. Dirk would make this team an instant contender once again.
Same goes with Bosh and Gasol.
Amare? Like West his rebounding was generally subpar this year, and like West his help defense is lacking and he IS a whiner (unlike West), but c'mon.. CP3 + Amare would be pretty amazing. I have mixed feelings but ultimately I do feel like Amare would be an upgrade over West from a pure basketball standpoint. He's younger than West and if he was playing with CP3 I have no doubt he'd get back to the 25 PER level of play he was at prior to this season. i.e.... freaking amazing.
Aldridge? No. I like him but to me he seems like a younger, taller version of D. West with more athleticism yet strangely... even less rebounding. No upgrade there.
And someone mentioned Zach Randolph? Well, he can put up 20/10 on bad teams but he's a headcase with a VERY low basketball IQ. No thanks.
neworleansbasketball.blogspot.com #10
Ryan Schwan
05/26/09 09:41 PM
Everyone always comes back to Al Jefferson and his 23 and 11, but forget to beware a good player on a bad team.
Jefferson is poor defensively, allowing opposing centers PERs of 19+. But the most damning number Jefferson produces is he only scores 1.19 points per shot, which is awful for a primary option, but is right on par with his career numbers. He's just not that efficient. He also somehow manages to have even worse passing stats than West does - and West is a bit of a black hole.
West held opposing power forwards to pretty low numbers (see my earlier post about him) - and even held opposing centers(when he played there) to PERs of 17. His points per shot is only 1.23 per game this season, but over his career he's averaged a solid 1.28 per shot - which is what he averaged for most of the season until he wore down at the end.
All that said - Jefferson for D-West is pretty much a wash to me.
Amare is without question a better offensive player. His rebounding is worse. His passing is (wow, another one?) worse. His defense is about the same. However, he has never EVER been happy. He whined about Shawn Marion. Whined about not enough touches. Whined about not being the man on his team. Whined about how the team played too slow with Shaq.
If Nash casts too big of a shadow for him to be happy - Paul's going to make him feel like an ant.
And I'm not even going to talk about Zach Randolph. I'd rather start Hilton Armstrong.
www.hornets247.com #11
Mark
05/27/09 12:54 AM
Ryan, you know more about Jefferson than I, but the same can be said for DX on a rather lackluster squad. CP draws the double teams. From what I can remember, DX rarely drew doubles until this season. Yeah, I know DX is the only player that can create his own shot on our squad (again, CP excluded), but Jefferson's size itself should command rebounds: something I'm weary of for the Bees. Our squad needs size and a low post threat, in my opinion, so I'd rather take Al Jef, higher salary and all.
Also, not sure about the 1.19 per shot. How's that calculated? I thought the simple statistic of 0.497 FG% versus 0.472 FG% this season automatically means Al Jef scores more per touch (especially since he had 23).
Zach Randolph would be a negative for me, since I'm not sure he'd be good off-court, which generally does make an impact with your squad. DX's been as great as it comes in that regard. Although I'd love to see Zach Randolph act a fool and toss up air-ball threes... just not for us.
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QueenBee
05/27/09 01:29 AM
One NBA source recently had this to say about Bosh...
"I don't think he's going to get any better," says one NBA source who has scouted Bosh extensively. "I love him, but he is what he is - he's a jump-shooting power forward."
http://www.nationalpost.com/sports/story.html?id=1633221
#13
Sylvan
05/27/09 08:39 AM
I know I've heard that a lot of college football programs were trying power forwards as tight ends. Possibly those that would be power forwards are being leeched by other sports. Also, maybe since the game seems to be less physical and more finesse these days, perhaps those big bruising power forwards don't have as much of a chance.
Maybe it'd be different if Tim Duncan had more personality? Everyone tried to find the next Jordan, but I've never heard anyone say they were looking for the next Tim Duncan.
#14
Ryan Schwan
05/27/09 10:30 AM
@Mark - points per shot is calculated by dividing the number of points a player scores by the number of shots they take.
It's a simple number, but it helps reflect things like three-point shooting prowess and the ability to draw(and make) free throws. Jefferson shoots at a higher percentage than West and even draws one more free throw than him, but West makes more free throws and adds an odd three pointer here and there. Therefore, he averages more points per shot.
It's the same premise as True Shooting Percentage - which gives players bonuses for made three pointers and free throws.
@QueenBee - The article about Bosh is kinda silly. Even if he doesn't improve at all from today's standards, he's a better rebounder than West, a better shooter and scorer than West, and he proved in the Olympics his defense can be downright scary when he's motivated.
@Sylvan - That may be true, though when your 6'9" or 6'10, it's hard to be Michael. And there are power forwards who had personality - Charles Barkley, Kevin Garnett, Chris Webber. Rasheed Wallace has personality too. :)
www.hornets247.com #15
Ciaran Hourican
05/27/09 12:40 PM
Dude there wasn't one mention of Carlos Boozer in your random thoughts- I'd trade two David Wests for him or one and a half anyway. But regardless i think the biggest thing your squad needs is some proper coaching.
#16
Ryan Schwan
05/27/09 01:58 PM
Carlos Who? Boozer has more defensive deficiencies than David West, averages 1.17 points per shot, and rebounds much stronger than West. Last year he was better than West, but I'm just not that into him. :)
www.hornets247.com #17
Mark
05/27/09 05:33 PM
Ryan: Oh, so it's total shots put, including the FTs. That makes much more sense, since DX's really good from the line. That makes sense. Our team is a very good FT% team, so I would take the lower dip in FT% with Jefferson. Again, to each his own, just know I'm rooting for a low-post threat!
I think most of us are looking at true power forwards with a low post skill-set too. We need something to complement CP, and while our system works decently, at least low-post would be a different gameplan; something we fans desperately want. And although most of the former PF stars are on the decline, I think they offer intangibles that would benefit the team more than the statistics. Although, realistically, intangibles are just that and shouldn't be the sole reason a player is signed.
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Dodgerblue15
05/27/09 07:29 PM
There aren't a lot of "traditional" power forwards anymore, because of zone defenses and the way the perimeter game is being called. The same reason Chris Paul, statistically, can be better than Magic Johnson. The same reason why Nate Robinson has a job and Monta Ellis scored a huge paycheck.
And, your argument for West over Jefferson is another example of why using only stats to make your determinations Ryan is not necessarily a good thing. Yes, Jefferson played on a bad team, he's played on bad teams his whole career. But, that works in his favor regarding points per possession. Al faced a myriad of double and sometimes triple teams being the only true offensive threat on Sota last year. He also had to generate a great deal of that by himself (26.8 usage rate) having Randy Foye masquerading as a 1 and the even-keeled, veteran-savvy (sarcasm) Sebastian Telfair as his primary point guard options. On the other hand, West had a 23.8 usage rate and played with arguably the best point guard in the game, being assisted a lot more by Paul, and facing far less double teams.
Furthermore, rebounding is vital to success (check the Lakers thrashing Monday night for reference). Jefferson is light years better at rebounding then West. Jefferson had one of his worst rebounding years and still averaged 2.5 more rebounds than West. His rebound rate was 17.6 to West's 13.1, this in a year where Tyson Chandler missed large amounts of time and wasn't nearly close to the rebounding machine he's been the last few seasons. West responded to this lack of rebounding by pulling down less boards than last season, when Chandler was a top 3 rebounder.
To pull points per possession out of the air and use that as the reason you would keep West over taking Jefferson is simply ridiculous.
Oh yeah, West will be 29 next season. Jefferson? He'll be 25. And as Chandler supporters continue to say, centers/power forwards usually don't reach their peak until 26-28.
Stats only tell part of the story. And using one stat out of the many that are out there to prove a point is just being uninformed...
westcoastslant.blogspot.com #19
Ryan Schwan
05/27/09 10:49 PM
You can dismiss my opinion if you like, but I actually stated four seperate stats, not one, and you assume a lot by claiming that I rely only on stats to make judgements. I rely on stats to illustrate my observations, and to give me an inkling when my observations have been premature or incorrect.
There are a lot of other reasons to not like Jefferson - but to me, him not ever having been an efficient scorer after having played five years in the league, and having always been a really poor defender? That's enough. The Hornets don't need another inefficient scorer or defender - but I'll get to what I think they do need in a future post.
www.hornets247.com #20
GoDallas
05/31/09 10:28 PM
Never have I read anything dumber on this website than the thought that anyone would consider comparing Dirk Nowitzki, Kevin Garnett, or Tim Duncan to David West. How can't you see that minus Chris Paul David West is a weak tool of a player. David West was never really an All Star, and he never will be. I would trade David West for either of those three if they were fourty. But don't worry, you're not the Hornets GM, and the Celtics, Mavs, and Spurs (also the Raptors for that matter) are nowhere close enough to trading real stars for David West. Also, none of these guys want any part of New Orleans.
#21