Thanks to the excellent Bret Lagree of the Hawks blog Hoopinion, I have access to normalized stats for the top 90 or so US college prospects in the NBA draft. "Normalized" means he's adjusted all of the stats for pace of teams by figuring out the players points, assists, turnovers, steals, and blocks per 100 possessions - as well as a player's rebound rate.(% of available rebounds they grab while on the floor)
These numbers prove invaluable, considering I haven't seen enough college basketball this season to be able to speak authoritatively about . . . well . . . almost anyone. Still - the numbers at least give us a frame of reference.
First and foremost, we do need to simply accept this draft will not fill the Hornet's biggest need. The crop of big men is very, very thin. Outside of Blake Griffin, every major big man prospect has some pretty big flaws. The other four big guys most likely to be taken before the Hornets draft have some issues:
Hasheem Thabeet is a terrible rebounder. His rebounding rate puts him only in the middle of the pack amongst power forwards, much less centers. His scoring is efficient, but infrequent, and his passing is awful. Awful. He does block a big number of shots. Honestly - if I had to pick a player going in the top 5 who is going to be a bust, it would be Thabeet.
DeJuan Blair is an incredible rebounder, particularly offensively, but he's a mediocre shooter, and despite his bull-like method, draws very few free-throws. His lack of height scares people, but there's a lot here to like.
Jordan Hill's calling card is rebounding. Sort of. While he ranks a nice-sounding fourth - he's not elite at all. In fact, he's closer to being ranked 11th than he is being ranked 3rd. As for scoring, scoring efficiency, steals, blocks, assists, and turnovers he falls right in the middle of the pack of the Power Forward position at everything. You'd expect a top-10 prospect to excel at something.
James Johnson ranks in the bottom half at rebounding, but shows solid steals and shot-blocking numbers, which usually indicate solid athleticism. His scoring efficiency is good, though he does take one out of every five of his shots outside the three-point line, where he's not much of a shooter.
According to the Mock Drafts at DraftExpress, ESPN, NBADraft.net, there are a few big men who could fall to the Hornets. Personally, I don't actually want any of them, but here's how I'd rank them:
Gani Lawal, PF, Georgia Tech
Lawal is a slightly above average rebounder, and is right in the middle of the pack at scoring. His scoring efficiency suffers because he draws few free throws and hits a horrible percentage of them. His shot-blocking and steals numbers are solid, but not spectacular. He's young, so you'd expect him to improve, but it'll take a few years. He seems to me to be a lesser verion of Jordan Hill - who doesn't really inspire me much. (Update: Gani Lawal has withdrawn from the draft)
Tyler Hansbrough, PF, North Carolina
Hansbrough scores efficiently, showing a nice shooting touch and a strong ability to draw free throws, but his rebound rate is terrible, a fairly damning piece of information for someone who is expected to make a living in the NBA as a hustler. His blocks are 2nd from the bottom at his position, and his steals are merely ordinary. His passing isn't anything to write home about. The Hornets need scoring, sure - but they need rebounding even more.(Recent Mock drafts have him going earlier than 21st anyways)
BJ Mullens, C, Ohio
Mullens would be perfect for the Hornets - if they are looking for someone to duplicate Hilton Armstrong's abysmal production. Mullens has an awful rebound rate that would place him in the bottom 8 amongst power forwards, much less centers. He gets less assists than the black hole Thabeet, and turns the ball over much more often. He's the least efficient scorer among centers, shoots free throws like Shaq, yet still rarely draws free throws. He also pretty much sucks at blocking shots, ranking a distant last amongst centers. He's young, sure - but give me SOMETHING to work with.
I'll be moving on to the guards and wings next. There are some pretty interesting possibilities there - and though I don't see many stars available at 21, there are some specialists who could be pretty valuable. I can't say the same about the big men.


24 legendary comments post your own
joe
06/15/09 11:51 AM
Lawal has dropped out of the draft so that pretty much only leaves hansbrough as a viable big man other than dejuan blair if he falls that far (which he wont)
I say go for thornton and wait for next years draft to get a solid young big, it will be deep with pattrick patterson, a more polished lawal, and other bigs
#1
Andrea
06/15/09 12:33 PM
I want to say we should but I'm really not sure. Not having a 2 to create his own shot last year hurt us. Our lack of rebounding hurt us. The fact that we didn't have solid bench production hurt us (although Pargo's retun would help). Obviously, we need a number of things. I don't really like the majority of the big men except DeJuan Blair who will most likely be gone by then but I can't say there are a lot of 2s who pop out at me. I guess Thornton would be an okay choice.
#2
Niall Doherty
06/15/09 12:44 PM
Blair is the only one of these guys I've seen play, that game where he got knocked out of the Tournament, and I was impressed. I've heard at least one comparison of him to Larry Johnson when he came in the League, and I can see that. Not that he'll be the impact player that LJ was, but he's that undersized-yet-dominant rebounder type. I'd love if the Hornets got him, but I agree it's very unlikely he'll fall to 21.
www.ndoherty.com #3
Ryan Schwan
06/15/09 01:16 PM
I just can't get excited about any of them. Hansbrough has some pretty impressive scoring numbers - but so did Adam Morrison. And Morrison had the same problem with the rest of his stats looking ordinary to bad.
I could go for Blair.
Johnson is okay - but he just seems like a thicker Julian Wright - with a lower ceiling.
www.hornets247.com #4
Mikey
06/15/09 01:56 PM
Ryan,
I totally agree with you on Thabeet. I've seen him in a number of games, but I just don't see the hunger for the ball, which one needs to have to be an effective rebounder. Now he does have one tool in his favor, height, but everyone at his position is tall in the NBA, so that will be less of an advantage at the next level. Rebounding is an instinctive skill; you either have it or you don't. For instance, Hilton Armstrong DOESN'T! Sometimes it's just not in you, and not in the skill set. Working on certain arm techniques, footwork, angles, boxing out, etc. can make a good rebounder into a very good one, or an adequate rebounder into a good one. No amount of training will make an awful rebounder into an adequate one. That said, of the guys that you mention, I think Johnson may have the most upside. I would say Blair, who does have that hunger for the ball, but he'll be gone before the 20th pick. Too bad too, he's kinda like a younger Brandon Bass. As for Hansbrough, eesh, that's just too much of a risk, even at #21.
And Ryan,
Watch what you say about Adam Morrison. Not only does he have an awesome mustache, but he's now an NBA Champion. You shoulda seen how well that "Laker NBA Champs" tee shirt fit over his suit! It was poetic.
#5
bigindian15
06/15/09 04:24 PM
I've seen Thabeet play a few times because my roommate was a huge UConn fan, and I don't think he'll be a bust, but I'm in the minority. His best case is Dikembe Mutombo, worse case is a taller Hilton Armstrong.
If Blair is there (heh heh rhyme) we HAVE to pick him, otherwise I'd want a two guard. Where is Jodie Meeks projected?
#6
Dodgerblue15
06/15/09 05:50 PM
This late in the draft, a draft that is deep in good talent, but lacks discernible "great" talent, I think it's in the Hornets best interest to draft the best available talent and worry about filling holes in the roster after they know who they've drafted. This isn't the NFL (where, even there they draft best available talent first) with its multiple rounds. The Hornets have holes at the starting 2 and the 1, 2, 4 and 5 off the bench. Whoever they get, they should make sure he can contribute right away rather than worry about plugging their immediate needs. That type of drafting rarely ever works (the Hawks skipping Paul for the "better" talent in Marvin Williams notwithstanding). I mean, this team's got more holes than Kurt Cobain's widow.
westcoastslant.blogspot.com #7
Mikey
06/15/09 05:56 PM
Dodger, I'm with you on best available, unless that guy is a 6'7-6'9 spot-up shooter. The Bugs have those coming out of their ears.
#8
joe
06/15/09 06:21 PM
Thats what I think Thornton could be, a guy that could come on and contribute right away and be that Jason terry guy that we need so badly, he will most likely be the best talent available
Also Ryan did you get any info on earl Clark, he's projected to be a Lamar odom type player and I've read his stock might be dropping to around our level
#9
JoJo
06/15/09 06:41 PM
Dodger you are the first person I've seen write that this is a deep draft for good players.
Most experts are saying that it's the weakest in quite some time.
Realistically I'd rather just sell the pick to get a little closer to having Pargo back, or package it for someone that can help us now.
#10
Dodgerblue15
06/15/09 06:53 PM
JoJo,
It's a weak draft in terms of star talent, but I'm sure a lot of these guys will stick in the league. Take for instance a guy like Darren Collison. He's expected to go in the late first, early second round, and isn't a "star" player by any means. But in ten years, he'll probably be making an Anthony Carter type impact to some playoff team. These kinds of players, good enough to stick in the NBA and contribute, are all over this draft.
After Blake Griffin (who, because it's the Clippers, I can't shake the unfortunate feeling that he's going to be an absolute flop), there are no sure things. Jrue Holiday, projected mid to late first round, could end up being light years better than lottery-bound Ricky Rubio. From pick 2 through 22, the talent level is pretty even. Doesn't make it a bad draft overall, just for those who have to pick in the top ten.
That's why, keeping the 21 and getting the best available is probably the wisest course of action. You never know, maybe the Bugs could draft the best player out of this class...a sort of 2009 version of Michael Redd (43rd pick in the 2000 draft). Something like that. Maybe "pretty good" is a better adverb/adjective combo to describe this year's draft.
westcoastslant.blogspot.com #11
Dodgerblue15
06/15/09 06:55 PM
And for the record, Pargo ain't the answer. Depending on his monetary demands, I'd shy away from re-walking that path.
westcoastslant.blogspot.com #12
joe
06/15/09 08:11 PM
About the whole pargo thing I think this year proved to be enough evidence as to why we need him back, there are no arguments as to why we shouldn't sign him back
#13
Caleb462
06/15/09 08:47 PM
There were so many other problems this year I really doubt Pargo would have made much of a difference. Some difference, probably, but nothing major. That said, he wouldn't have hurt... and I'm all for having him back as long as the price is right.
As far as the draft is concerned... I also like the Thorton pick because he seems to be the only semblance of a shot creator that will be available. Gerald Henderson is also intriguing but I don't know if he'll be there at 21. I very much dislike the Wayne Ellington pick that I'm seeing in some mock drafts just because ANOTHER spot-up shooter would be ridiculously redundant. But I am thinking on a "need" basis and maybe that's a mistake. I don't like any of the big man picks.
neworleansbasketball.blogspot.com #14
joe
06/15/09 09:39 PM
yeah I agree about Ellington, every mock draft that has him going to us says stuff like "a guy that will be able to knock down the open shot off of chris Paul", and that's the one thing I don't want to hear when getting a new player, we've got enough players who stand around with their hands ready at the 3, that is why Thornton is the most logical pick because if he brings one thing to the table (which he doesn't) it's that he doesn't need anyone spoonfeeding him that alone should make him our target
#15
chefcdb
06/16/09 05:06 PM
You must not have watched much Tar Heel basketball if you think Wayne Ellington is a passive spot up shooter. He handles the ball better than Marcus Thornton, and he's a very creative offensive player. He's not as relentless a scorer as Kentucky's Meeks, but he has plenty of arsenal to his game: drives, pull-up mid-range, long bombs from real NBA 3 range, and the kid plays defense.
I'd say neither Thornton nor Ellington are exactly slashers to the rim, but neither guy is a statue hangin' outside the arc. I think Ellington has more polish to his game, and he has excelled under pressure throughout his career, capable of literally carrying the Heels to victory with unstoppable games and clutch shooting. Thornton has a serious upside, and will enter the league ready to work hard to improve, and he's been clutch, too; even though I thought Tasmin Mitchell was the best player on LSU last season. I'd be pretty dang happy if either guy fell to us!
chefcdb.livejournal.com #16
Dmon3k
06/16/09 08:01 PM
Am I crazy when I think the Hornets should draft small and maybe try to get Orlando's back up big Marcus Gortat in free agency?
#17
Caleb462
06/16/09 09:49 PM
@chef. You're right, I didn't see much Tar Heels ball. I was basing my opinion on the stuff I've been reading on the draft sites and stuff, which seem to be projecting him as more of catch-and-shoot type of player. For instance, from DraftExpress:
"Ellington's short-comings lie in his inability to create offense for himself, as he ranks third worst in isolation possessions generated behind two very poor ball-handlers in Paul Harris and K.C. Rivers, and his very related inability to draw fouls--which he did on just 9% of his used possessions. Ellington is obviously a finesse player who needs plays run for him in the half-court in order to be most effective, which means he'll definitely need to find the right situation in the NBA. "
That said, DraftExpress has some similiar comments about Thorton, but Thorton does seem to have more off-the-dribble potential than Ellington. Again, this is just based on various reading. I didn't watch a whole lot of college ball so I appreciate the input from someone who has.
neworleansbasketball.blogspot.com #18
Caleb462
06/16/09 09:51 PM
@Dmon. Gortat is an excellent backup big man who really rebounds well - just the kind of guy the Hornets need. If they can afford him they should definitely go after him.
neworleansbasketball.blogspot.com #19
joe
06/16/09 10:42 PM
If we can afford gortat so could the magic (let alone the knicks who are said to be very high on him)
@chef: you are right I didn't watch much tar heel basketball games save a few tourney games and like celeb462 I get most of my info from draftexpress and similar stuff, however I did get to see a couple of lsu games and I can tell that Thornton is a guy that can not only create his shot but hit hard ones as well, the thing that is said about most top prospects as a negative is that they got by at the college level by strength, althletiscm or size and stuff like that meaning that they never really had to use alot of skill en route to dominating at the college level, but Thornton never was the tallest , strongest, or biggest guard but he still found a way to score, he has a great finishing ability that will help him in the next level
So in case you can't tell if Thorntons available I want him to be our guy
#20
bigindian15
06/16/09 11:05 PM
Gortat is going to get overpaid the full midlevel. We don't want him for that price. In fact, NO ONE should want him for that price, he's just not good enough to deserve it
I'd rather have Ellington, who can do more than just spot up, than Thornton just because they're really similar guys, and Ellington did it against better competition in the ACC basically
But, I'd rather have Jodie Meeks over both of them, and I think we can get him in the second round, because I think Meeks can legitimately be a Barbosa/Jason Terry type player
#21
chefcdb
06/17/09 01:14 AM
The thing I worry about Meeks is his poor decision making & propensity for turnovers, plus his need for volumes of shoots. He was not an efficient player, but then last year's Kentucky squad had some disarray and wasn't that talented overall.
I don't know that I fully believe that Ellington was that poor in iso scoring situations. He obviously benefitted from having a terrific push-the-pace point guard in Ty Lawson, and Psycho T dominated enough in the paint to give him room to hit shots from the perimeter because you can't double both guys. during the Tournament, when Ellington started on fire the Heels went on to crush their opponents. In fact, only LSU had a lead on the Heels in the 2nd half of the NCAA, and had Lawson not given an incredible 2nd half performance that could've been the only chance to upset North Carolina, in large part because Ellington came out smokin' hot in each subsequent game.
Thornton is more physical, Ellington has more skills, and Meeks is the most ruthless scorer and the worst defender of the 3 guys. BTW, the Hornets do not have a 2nd round pick, unless a trade happens, so they must make it happen with their sole pick at #21 or in some draft day trade intrigues. The other guy I hope the Hornets look closely at is Paddy Mills: another gutsy pt guard who could give CP genuine rest and he can shoot like Pargo. Eric Maynor looks a lot like Rajon Rondo did when he was in college at Kentucky, but he's a better shooter than Rondo (though not as crafty and not as determined a rebounder as Rondo is for the Celtics). I'm not sure Maynor has succeeded against the best level of player as in the ACC, but it's pretty easy to see his length and scoring ability leading to a decent NBA career, too, more as a pt guard than a pure scorer #2 SG.
On the bigs, none of the centers after Blake Griffin seem that great. Ryan's numbers breakdowns seem accurate, although I never saw the kid with the bad stats from Ohio. Blair from Pitt is a gamer, but he has about the same upside as Tractor Traylor for the NBA. I'm keeping an open mind, and maybe at 21 you get a gift, like a Sam Young at PF, but to me a creative ballhandler who can play off CP is our best option where there is the most depth at that position in the 2009 draft.
BTW, the LSU kid I'm rooting for to find a NBA home is Collis Temple. Great defender, and with development he could become like Ariza as a ballhawking defender & good perimeter shooter who plays smart in complementary ways to another gifted wing scorer, as Ariza does for Kobe. He's the kind of guy who would be a help to the Celtics or Cavs, as I see it.
I do watch a fair amount of college hoops, but I am not sure after all these years who will make the jump to the NBA. A guy like Fields, the awesome pt guard for Pitt, could be more like Mateen Cleaves who won it all w/ Mo Pete at Michigan State and only sat on the bench in the NBA, or maybe he can adapt his stocky frame to succeed in the NBA. When Mike Bibby was a freshman at Arizona, the Man on that college team was Miles Simon, but Jason Terry, who was a role player, and Bibby excelled in the pros. These guys are so young and will have to improve their games so much to stick around to even compete in the NBA; in the end, can their desire take their game to a higher level because only Blake Griffin walks into this draft as a complete enough player to impact the league right away? That's why this draft is a paradox: weak with star power, but fairly deep with guys who can achieve good careers and possible big upsides for an NBA team down the road.
chefcdb.livejournal.com #22
alltheway123
06/17/09 12:47 PM
they need to get terrence williams... this guy is amazing... check him out on youtube if you dont believe me... most mock drafts have him still available at 21
#23
lilrip133
06/17/09 07:59 PM
the only big man in the draft im remotely interested in is dejuan blair but we wont get him. i agree with the terrence williams pick as i stated in the wing player post.
#24