After drooling for a while over players like James Harden and trying to figure out how Demar DeRozan ranks so highly when he's shown almost no basketball-related skills, I moved on to evaluating the wing players who might actually fall to the Hornets. I grabbed any true wing player that fell with 10 picks or so of the Hornets on any of the major Mock Draft sites, and then evaluated their numbers. Here's my ranking, which I'll admit, I struggled with some. Oh - and the first guy I put up should make a lot of you who live in Louisiana happy. Homers!
1. Marcus Thornton, SG, LSU
Thornton was a scoring machine, pouring in the 4th most points per 100 posessions of any college wing prospect. He's also a very low risk player, turning the ball over very infrequently despite being the focus of so many possessions. Combine that with him being the 8th best thief and he would fit right in with the Hornet's careful ball-handling and hawking game. Other than that, however, he's a just a little better than average as a prospect. His scoring efficiency is 17th out of 41 prospects. His three point shooting is 14th, his Free throw shooting 27th. He drew free throws at the 19th fastest rate. He handed out the 22nd most assists, blocked the 21st most shots, and was the 24th best rebounder overall. Pretty average. He does have the best ball-handling ability and is skilled running in set plays - which makes me lean towards him over similar players like Jermaine Taylor. As a second unit volume scorer, he has potential.
2. Sam Young, SF, Pittsburgh
Young is a physical specimen and ranks pretty highly on most draft boards because of his ability to spot up, finish in transition, and defend. His rebounding, steals and blocked shots numbers do support his claim to athletic gifts, as Young posted numbers in the top 15 in all three. His scoring was prolific in college and he posted shooting and efficiency numbers very close to Marcus Thornton's. However, as a passer, he left much to be desired, posting an awful assist rate for someone who had the ball so much, and a pretty ugly turnover rate to go along with it. He's also known to have some weakness in his ball-handling and one-on-one scoring opportunities. The best comparison I've seen for him is to James Posey. I can't say I'd mind having another James Posey around - though I'd prefer a scorer who could produce more on their own, thus Thornton ranks ahead of him on this list.
3. Terrence Williams, SF, Louisville
Williams is a mid-1st rounder with enough questions he could fall to the Hornets. He's quite simply an excellent athelete(all the markers from college ball confirm as much) posting the best steals numbers among swing men, nice shot-blocking numbers, and is top 5 as a rebounder. He's also a good passer, racking up the most assists from the wing positions while posting good turnover numbers for such a willing passer. All of that sounds wonderful, until you get to his scoring numbers, where he falls off the cliff. He's the 4th least effecient scorer amongst wing prospects, posting an abysmal true shooting percentage of 52%. Some of that is his shaking shooting ability, but he was also the third worst wing at drawing free throws - on top of his 58% free throw shooting(good for last amongst wing players. It's hard to get excited about the guy. The Hornets don't need a focused defensive stopper in the second unit - they need a capable scorer. Williams isn't that. Still, he's got some serious potential.
4. Jermaine Taylor, SG, UCF
Taylor is a lot like Marcus Thornton - a scoring machine. When you look at the numbers, the difference between the two players ends up being a wash. Thornton is a slightly better three-point shooter, Taylor slightly better at free throws. Thornton gets a few more steals, Taylor a few more blocked shots. Both rebound about the same. Both get about the same amount of assists. In the end, stat-wise, the biggest seperator between the two is Thornton's much lower turnover rate - which gives him the edge here.
5. Jodie Meeks, SG, Kentucky
Meeks is a crazy player to try and evaluate. He was the most efficient scorer among college wing prospects, posting a crazy true shooting percentage of 64%. He stroked the three-point shot at 41% and took it freely, firing more than half of his shots from that range. Yet despite his love of the three, Meeks still managed to draw the 9th most free throws per posession and he converted them at a high rate, posting a 91% from the stripe. That's the good news. The bad news is Meeks was well below average at assists, turnovers and steals, and ranked 40th out of 41 in blocked shots and rebounding. The knock on him has always been his lack of height and athleticism, and those numbers bear that out pretty definitively. The idea of Meeks's scoring makes me think he could be Ben Gordon's level of player - but that doesn't give enough credit to Ben Gordon, who is a pretty good athelete. Meeks as an Eddie House, maybe? A House-like player would be useful to the Hornets in the second unit.
6. Chase Budinger, SG, Arizona
Budinger has all the physical tools you could want - standing 6'6" and with the leaping ability to have qualified as an Olympic-level volleyball player. His scoring numbers are pretty, posting top-10 numbers in efficiency and three-point shooting. Despite his strength from downtown, only 1/3rd of his shots came from there as he willingly drove and drew a decent number of free throws, knocking them down at a nice clip. Budinger also posted a top 10 assist rate while only giving away an average number of turnovers. His steals, blocks, and rebounding are all average or slightly better than average. From every report I've seen, however, the problem with Budinger appears to be his desire and drive. Every year he's been in college his stock has dropped as scouts have noted he may not be the toughest and hardest working guy around. In the New Jersey Workout that happened a few days ago(which the Hornets attended) there were reports that he pretty much stopped working hard when the his opponent got physical and settled for jumpers. The idea of Budinger is highly attractive to me - but I've always believed that people don't change much without something catastrophic happening. If Budinger isn't driven and focused now - I doubt he will suddenly become that way by entering the coddled world of an NBA player.
7. Wayne Ellington, SG, North Carolina
Ellington's calling card is shooting, posting top ten numbers in efficiency and three point shooting. His numbers indicate 40% of his shots were from beyond the line, but his low rate of drawing free throws is an indicator he only attacks the basket when the way is clear. Unsurprisingly, his turnover numbers are also fairly low, considering his role as a shooter. Beyond his nice efficiency numbers, his assist rate is ordinary, and his athletic markers are pretty bad, posting bottom ten numbers at blocks, steals and rebounds. I know some have said he's developed other aspects of his game over the past year, but the numbers don't really support it.
8. DaJuan Summers, SF, Georgetown
Summers was a nice, solid scorer, posting the 6th best efficiency rate among wing prospects on a decent volume of shots. He drew fouls at a good rate(though he was only so-so at converting them) and showed a good stroke from the college three-point line. Unfortunately for Summers - his size, reliance on strength over speed and poor ballhandling make him more of a SF/PF sort of player - which means his rebound rate is horribly lacking as he ranked only 29th out of 41 wing prospects. He'd have been dead last among the big men. Anyway you cut it, Summers isn't going to really fill any need for the Hornets at this point - which revolve around scoring guards or rebounding big men.
Next, I'll hit the ballhandlers. Personally, I think our best potential prospect will come from that group - but we'll see how the numbers bear out.


21 legendary comments post your own
bigindian15
06/17/09 05:49 PM
Do you think all of these guys go in the first round? I'd love Chase Budinger because he's always produced in college pretty consistently, and I think playing for Byron Scott would force him to work hard, because as we all know, if he doesn't work, he won't play no matter how high he gets drafted. Then again, we don't need another small forward. We really need a two guard who can be a good ballhandler. I'd like either Thornton or Meeks. I'd rate Meeks a little higher personally, just because he showed flashes of being able to completely dominate at times for Kentucky. Also, we can get him in the second round (I have no idea why he's gonna fall so far, but that's where he's rated on a lot of mock drafts)
#1
The_big_H
06/17/09 06:24 PM
Budinger has bust written all over him. He really does. Absolutely no desire for basketball
#2
LSUhornet17
06/17/09 07:16 PM
Yes. I was hoping it wasn't just my obvious favoritism that had me thinking Thornton would be a great fit. I know the SEC isn't great competition but I personally saw him take over a few games. Definitely a little streaky but on off nights he would make a good effort to penetrate and get to the line. Made some pretty clutch shots in his career and the range is obviously there. If we manage to resign Pargo I think Thornton is a tougher sell b/c at 6-4 he's kinda small to be out there with Pargo and also a very similar player. Otherwise, I couldn't be any happier than if we picked up Marcus. A couple of mock drafts have him going to the Lakers, in which case I'd jump out of a window.
#3
lilrip133
06/17/09 07:56 PM
i wouldnt mind getting thornton, but i woud love sam young. he's an extremely underrated freak of an athlete, and defensively he's great. he could use some work on the offensive end, but maybe if we could get some movement in our offense... he could be effective. i like williams' abilities as a point forward, which could really come in handy in that second unit since we dont have much of a backup point guard anyway. that way if meeks did happen to drop down to where we could get him, he could be used as a scorer in the second lineup with less ball handling pressure. i also think that there will be a good amount of pure scorers available in the second round anyway, seeing that a lot of the nation's leading scorers this year came from small schools.
#4
Ryan Schwan
06/17/09 09:38 PM
No - I don't think they'll all go in the first round. I think the range for these guys is around 20-40, with Williams having the chance to go in the mid-teens.
Meeks falls because he is fast and shoots - but he's short for a shooting guard and isn't viewed as even a good athelete. Having only seen him play once in my life, I can't really be a good judge of that.
The thing that really sells me the most about Thornton are two things:
1. He's a low mistake player. Considering the number of posessions he consumed, his turnover numbers are just plain incredible.
2. The offense he played in ran a lot of screens and staggered screens for him to run off and get shots. He showed he could do that - and still get good shots even under pressure. That's something the Hornets don't have. Our wings don't have the footspeed - and have to have room.
www.hornets247.com #5
bigindian15
06/17/09 09:52 PM
The only qualm I have about Thornton and Meeks is that they play in the SEC, and the SEC is not good competition, with only one good team the last few years (Florida) and absolute crap this year. Like the Big 10 in football, only not nearly as garbage and not overrated every year. Guys from the ACC and Pac 10 and Big East have a history of performing better due to better coaching and stiffer competition. The rigors of moving from a 30 game season to an 82 game season against all great players are lessened a little if you're playing tough games in the ACC or Big East every game instead of every 4 games like in the SEC.
@ryan: what you said about Meeks, isn't that what they said about Courtney Lee?
@The_big_h: if he had absolutely no desire for basketball, then why the hell did he play at a major program for 3 years? He would have just quit rather than go through all the practicing, traveling, training, etc. And why did he enter the draft early? People said the same thing about Greg Oden, and it's just retarded, just because a guy isn't Kobe who devotes every second of his life to basketball doesn't mean he isn't interested.
@LSUHornet1: I think we're all a little blinded by LSU fandom into thinking that Thornton is a great player/fit.
I think if we get Pargo, Thornton is probably unnecessary because I think that's his ceiling anyway, being Pargo. But I think Meeks, Williams, and Young could all start at the 2. We need a starter anyway.
I think there's a trade coming, but not necessarily to give up our pick. There's talk involving Ben Gordon going to Detroit, so if they make progress there, maybe we end up trading Chandler or West to them and getting back their pick and Hamilton/Prince or something. Then we grab DeJuan Blair.
Everyone can agree that if Blair is there, we HAVE to grab him, right? We don't want another repeat of last year where we inexplicably passed on CDR and Darrell Arthur
#6
Ryan Schwan
06/17/09 10:28 PM
I went back and looked at the scouting reports about Courtney Lee last year, because I didn't remember criticisms about his athleticism. Lee started off the year being blasted for his lack of aggressiveness and explosiveness. The first part faded, but the other remained - concerns about his first step. His other athletic gifts - jumping, strength, etc, were all considered fairly good.
He was also penalized for his small school - something Meeks is suffering from. I don't see the two as that similar, though.
If Blair falls to us, and I don't think he will - then yes, he's my preference - and the only big man I'd draft among those who could be available. There are also couple ball-handling prospects I prefer over these wingmen as well. We'll get to those.
I also agree that we'll see a trade on draft night. I'm actually thinking it'll be Chandler for some pick somewhere, but that's speculation of course.
Oh - and CDR and Darrell Arthur? They ain't good. I'm still not upset about it. :)
www.hornets247.com #7
LSUhornet17
06/18/09 08:55 AM
Thornton eating up a lot of possessions is an understatement. It seemed like the last couple of minutes of almost every close game consisted of Thornton with the ball at the top of the key to start the possession. Personally I think his ceiling is higher than Pargo. It seems like Pargo is viewed with rose-colored glasses because we struggled this year without him. Though we could have definitely used him, he was one of the most frustrating aspects of watching the team two years ago. When his shot wasn't falling, it was usually ugly.
#8
corndeaux
06/18/09 10:50 AM
If they don't resign Pargo, Thornton has to be the pick if available. All the things Ryan listed he does well are what need off the bench. Personally, I would take Thornton and leave Pargo. He will do about the same thing (maybe not as quick defensively) but will be cheaper for longer.
#9
Mikey
06/18/09 11:14 AM
Man, if only Thornton were 6'6", then he would be a lock for this pick. Honestly, thats the only knock on this kid. Being "slightly above average" all the way around isn't exactly a bad thing. Sure, it means he's not a superior athlete, but that also means he doesn't just rely on his athletic prowess. He actually has to work for his numbers. He could also be that combo guard that can fill the Pargo-void and ensures that Devin Brown remains in a suit for the duration of this coming season; both good-news stories. That's the kinda guy you want in your 2nd unit; a worker/competitor/scorer, no matter what school he comes from.
#10
alltheway123
06/18/09 02:22 PM
ill take thornton to but if jodie meedks is still available... ill rather him because what we need is a scorer.... and i know marcus thornton is a scorer... but meeks drop 40 points four times last year.. and his lowest scoring game of the year was 22 points... (here's his stats page)
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=31683
#11
alltheway123
06/18/09 02:25 PM
oh yah i forgot... he dropped 54 against tennessee (here's his 54 point game)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY2dfOhZ3rM
#12
Caleb462
06/18/09 02:33 PM
Here's a great stat-driven article on the shooting guard prospects - it was linked from the Basketball Reference blog. The author ranks Thorton as third best SG prospect after Tyreke Evans and James Harden. He has Meeks at the bottom of his list.
neworleansbasketball.blogspot.com #13
urgmasdaughter
06/18/09 02:38 PM
I just read were trading our draft pick for cash again. I hope we do get some young talent though.
Can't find the original post but here's reference to it.
http://offsideswithfletcher.wordpress.com/2009/06/01/hornets-selling-draft-pick/
#14
Caleb462
06/18/09 02:42 PM
And Thorton's cieling is definitely much higher than 8 points a game on sub 40% shooting...
neworleansbasketball.blogspot.com #15
Caleb462
06/18/09 02:44 PM
Oops! I forgot the link: http://www.hoopsanalyst.com/0809ew9.htm
neworleansbasketball.blogspot.com #16
Ryan Schwan
06/18/09 03:40 PM
@Vandalfan - I wouldn't put any stock in that, Vandalfan. Fletcher was simply reporting stuff he saw on a Chad Ford insider article. I read the article - and it was simply speculating about teams that may be willing to sell their 1st round picks this draft.
In later posts, Chad Ford has listed teams that he can confirm are definitely looking into moving their picks - and the Hornets are not on the list.
@Caleb - The Hoopsanalyst article produces numbers pretty similar to what I have Caleb. He doesn't normalize for pace, so some of his guys are higher or lower because their team was faster or slower, but the numbers are similar. I'd rank Harden and Evans well above Thornton as well - I just know the Hornets have no way to get either of them.
Of the shooting guards reportedly going in the top 10, I LOVE Harden. I like Evans. Demar DeRozan is awful. AWFUL.
www.hornets247.com #17
Caleb462
06/18/09 04:16 PM
I'm curious to see your post on Point Guards. There's a HoopsAnalyst article on the PGs as well and the author just gushes about Ty Lawson and thinks he's the best PG in the draft. All I know of his play is what I saw from him in the Carolina/LSU game, and he looked pretty good despite being injured. His stats are definitely good. Him being there at 21 is definitely a possibility.
neworleansbasketball.blogspot.com #18
bigindian15
06/18/09 05:25 PM
@Ryan: DeRozan was terrible in Hollinger's ratings too. I hate Hollinger and all his ratings, but they are pretty effective, so there ya go
@Caleb462: I'd rather have Jonny Flynn, whom I think is the best pg in the draft (excluding Stephen Curry, who isn't really a pg), but I think the rest of the league realized that too. I don't think either will be there, though, with pgs in high demand nowadays
#19
joe
06/18/09 06:56 PM
When it comes to drafting a pg, i actually would really like to get Jrue Holiday. In my mind he is a Gary Payton type player, even more than the guy Payton is helping terence williams, hes got great size and length and is a great defender, which means he could go to the off guard spot playing along paul. Only knock on him is his jumpshot (which is better than Evans though) but it could easily get better with work. Holiday and Maynor are the only viable options at the point that i would be happy with us drafting
On the topic of us drafting Thornton and then not needing Pargo, i dont necessarily agree with that. Having both would mean pargo goes to the one and thornton to the two (while taking minutes from devin brown, sadly also daniels but i really believe if we get pargo hes gone to save cap room) and that would mean we would have two scorers coming off the bench, which isnt a bad thing to have at all and would rather have that than take some potential bust like Mullens
#20
Caleb462
06/19/09 11:57 AM
I think Lawson has a lot more potential than Flynn... his numbers are certainly more impressive. Again, I haven't watched a lot of college ball, but from everything I've read Lawson seems like the best choice if for some reason he's still there at 21. That said, predicting this stuff is always difficult and you never really know...
@Joe. Agreed... I see no conflict with having Thorton AND pargo.
neworleansbasketball.blogspot.com #21