Today, Brandon Bass agreed to terms with Orlando, taking another semi-pipe dream free agent the Hornets were said to be interested in off the market. Bass joins McDyess, Chris Andersen, Zaza Pachulia, and, frankly, Jannero Pargo on that list.
I was talking with my buddy about the sorts of players that leaves the Hornets with as potential backups in the frontcourt; Chris Wilcox, Drew Gooden, Joe Smith, Mikki Moore, etc, and realized two things:
- I was dwelling on their negatives.
- Even with their negatives, they won't produce less than Hilton Armstrong did last year.
So again, I'm back to the fact we can't really help but improve. Either Hilton finally improves - or we get someone else who has already proven they can produce more than him.
Yes - that's a joke. Sort of. I know if Chandler is traded, it'll be tough replicating what he gave us last year on the cheap, and nearly impossible to replicate what he gave us when he was healthy, but as I gain more and more time and distance from the Game Which Will Not Be Named I become less and less anxious about the team.
Jeff Bower took a calculated gamble last season that the Hornets were on the verge of a contention. Injuries hit him in the spots that were exposed by the gamble, and it didn't pay off. Then the economy went and crapped all over Bower's ability to trade away only a single smallish contract for tax relief. He had it set up nicely, really. If the tax rate had increased at the same rate it had over the last ten years, we would be talking about having to trade Hilton Armstrong or Rasual Butler this off-season, and that's about it.
So the gamble will most likely cost the Hornets next year. It's likely we'll see a team that won't improve much, if at all. To me, however, that's a better option than having a fire sale like I've seen proposed on message boards and the like. If the Hornets dump West for unproven young players and maybe a draft pick or two, I don't see how that helps the Hornets reach contender status anytime in the next three years.
It's already been proven that Chris Paul and David West can make the Hornets a contender with a rebounder, defensive supporting cast and a capable third scorer. If the Hornets stand pat and eat this season, the following season they have a crazy $33,503,630 in expiring contracts to play with.
Most importantly, those contracts are expiring the summer after the big free agent extravaganza of 2010. Here's the thing you should know about that summer: There are four or five franchise-level free agents. Right now, there is slated to be about $376 million dollars worth of cap space. That number will probably be whittled down to around $250-$300 million by the summer of 2010 by extensions and free agent deals but that's still a lot of free agent cash floating around. Especially when the franchise level players can only claim around $80-100 Million dollars of it.
What does that mean to the Hornets, who won't have cap space next year? Next summer, after those top free agents go, there are going to be a bunch of second or third bananas like Mehmet Okur, Carlos Boozer, Joe Johnson, Luis Scola, Marvin Williams etc, who will have desperate teams come courting them with big money deals to be their new "franchise player". Then, halfway through that season, there will be a few of those teams forced to realize their new star player isn't going to take them where they want to go - and that player will become available at the trade deadline - or the next off-season. The Hornets will be in a good position to snap those people up. Oh, you don't want Joe Johnson? Would you like an expiring Peja? If they can grab another second banana or two to pair with West and Paul, the team can be pretty nasty.
So, to me, I'd prefer a little patience. It ain't sexy, but I think in the long run it'll be better for the Hornets.
What do you think? Waiting a year worth it?


35 marvelous comments post your own
berlinhornets
07/11/09 12:26 PM
I totally agree with you. I think the hornets can and will be competitive next season, Paul and West are just too good for that. And I think the bench will be much better with the two rookies. I especially like Collison who guarantees that there is not such a gap once Paul leaves the court. But we should wait for the season after that. If you include Hilton the Hornets will be sitting on 37,5 mio $ in expiring contracts during the 2010/2011 season. In addition to that Daniels 6,5 mio $ and Butlers 4 mio$ will be off the books after the next season and as a sweetener Brown will be gone as well. In the not so long run that doesn't sound too bad and should call for some optimism.
On another note. I really liked the idea of the trade Big Baby straight up for Posey in a sign-and-trade deal. I like Posey but he takes away minutes JuJu could play and I believe in the upside of Davis and his big body.
#1
joe
07/11/09 12:35 PM
I agree with you that all the hate that bower is getting is not right, no one predicted that the economy would effect the cap like it has, he had a good plan in the beginning and its not his fault (or anyone else's) that it hasn't come to fruition. The only reason other teams arent having alot of troubles is becasue they basically blew up their rosters for 2010 to afford 2-3 superstars, now they can only have 1 so their plans arent going perfect either
I also agree that were just health and maybe a peice or two away from competing
I dream about having joe johnson on my team, the perfect fit, i also think that if atlanta doesn't improve much now they will think about moving Johnson
Big Baby = Playoff fluke huge contract that the team that signs him will be regretting for years to come
Oh and patience is all good if and only if cp agrees
#2
joe
07/11/09 12:55 PM
oh and on Diogu i just read that the Kings didn't offer him a qualifying offer so he is actually an unrestricted free agent now, GET ON THIS HORNETS
#3
byronscott4
07/11/09 01:41 PM
Patience is the key. Look at some of these teams who are stocking up and you see some older key parts. The Hornets need to keep Paul and West and hope that one or two other young guys (I'm looking at you JuJu) develop into consistent players and the team won't have salary concerns. What I don't want to see happen is a Knicks scenario where they keep trying to make deals time after time and just get worse.
#4
Moam125
07/11/09 03:59 PM
Hey, does anyone know of a website that shows the Hornets players current contract situation? And if possible, for the rest of the leagues too. That would help me fantasize about the future. Thanks!
#5
joe
07/11/09 04:45 PM
@Moam125: Glad to help
http://www.hoopsworld.com/teams/team.asp?TEAM_ID=12
go to different team pages to see their money situations
#6
cpthunda
07/11/09 07:45 PM
I personally like Bower but, he took a chance and it failed. The criticism is warrented. If we did great last season would we not be talking him up as being an Exec of the Year? I think it is perfectly healthy for us as tax paying,ticket buying fans to keep the owner,gm and coach honest. In hindsight since Byron took over we've had one 50 win season. We chose to invest in free agency instead of the draft/ player development hence our high payroll and low number of Bower/Scott era drafted players currently on the roster and in the rotation. Our team is at that point where we are too vulnerable to injury. We stayed marginally healthy for that one 50 win season, that's it and Peja still missed a month's worth of games. I believe that patience is key but bower and scott can't afford that, therefore they will probably be gone next year and that may not be such a bad thing. Also we need to let go of West being untouchable. He's so so skilled and one of the top PF's in the game but he's never held accountable for not playing well. Never. And there have been more than a enough disappointing games against teams with high quality PF's for us to at least listen to offers If the Hornets traded David West for a decent player and a good pick that put us in position to be better would you not do it? The same can't be said about CP3. You wouldn't trade him for nothin except maybe LBJ.
#7
Ryan Schwan
07/11/09 10:02 PM
Sure, I'd consider trading David West if it was an upgrade. And how many proven, young upgrades are available?
I'd count . . . well . . . none.
And as soon as you try to attach a player like Peja or Morris to David, it becomes impossible to even break even.
The point I'm making is to wait because the deals we can find right now are not favorable, and we'd be sellers in a buyers market. If we can wait a year, that reverses.
www.hornets247.com #8
StefanC
07/12/09 12:42 AM
Wow that's great. So it's settled. We swallow a year, sign Okur, Boozer, and Williams. Trade Peja for Joe Johnson & win a championship. Ok not exactly like that, but I see where you're going with this. I like it.
#9
bigindian15
07/12/09 01:41 PM
"I personally like Bower but, he took a chance and it failed. The criticism is warrented."
Would you rather have a gm who never took a chance? It was a legit chance to take, but we couldn't possibly anticipate Denver trading for Billups (no one saw that coming) and making a huge leap. If we were as healthy last year as we were in 07-08, we would have been a top 3 seed.
Anyway, that's a good spin to put on our current situation. We also have something that almost no other team has: a legit #1 guy and a legit #2 guy (well, maybe not QUITE) in Paul and West, both young, both locked up for a few years. How many teams have that? Lakers (Kobe is old), maybe Utah (if Boozer resigns he's still an injury risk), and that's about it. Portland has a #1 but no real #2, OKC is still unproven talent, and Chicago is still sort of a mess. With a good foundation, we can compete with just a few tweaks every year, then if we have Tyson in good health with some solid role players, we have a good chance for the next few years.
@Ryan: I would trade West and Peterson for Chris Bosh in a cocaine heartbeat. But he's really the only guy
#10
bigindian15
07/12/09 01:45 PM
There's something else to consider: the cap is gonna go down again next year even more than it did this year, so there will be less cap room than players want. Stupid agents will still want gigantic contracts, so there will be a lot of mid level guys needing new contracts next summer, and they won't get the mad money they want. And the most desirable locations (NYC, Miami) will lose their cap space on Wade, LeBron, Bosh, whatever, so those midlevel guys (just scanning the list, guys like Brad Miller, Camby, Jermaine O Neal, Al Harrington) will probably move on to their second choice for teams: teams with good point guards who are fun to play with that are close to a championship. Also, I have to think New Orleans is a pretty desirable city to live in with the warm weather and the partying and all.
#11
Ryan Schwan
07/12/09 02:01 PM
When I figured out the available cap space, I reduced it by another 3 million from what it is this year. From what I've read, that's what should be expected.
I'd trade West for Bosh as well bigindian. And I'd include anyone on the roster the Raptors ask for who isn't named Paul to get it done.
However, it looks like the Raptors are hoping their signing of Turkey-glue and re-signing of Bargnani will pay off and keep Bosh around.
Turkoglu is an iffy signing. Re-signing Bargnani to a 10 mil per year extension is stupid. There was one big man who played significant minutes at center who was a worse rebounder than Hilton Armstrong, and that was Bargnani. And Bargnani isn't elite at anything else, so it's not like he makes up for it.
www.hornets247.com #12
yatpatel
07/12/09 02:25 PM
generally i agree...but D-West ain't getting any younger and frankly will only be at his peak for another year or two...so i think by 2011, in reality, he will be our 3rd option and we'll need to go get a legit #2, not to mention really upgrading the frontcourt depth...the Collison pick was completely retarded
#13
joe
07/12/09 02:50 PM
@yatpatel: I dont really agree with you on collison being that bad. At first when it happened i did, i really did. But now that i think about it more and more it really was a good pickup. They essentialy sold the pick for 6 mil (i.e daniels is now expendable), got younger, and solved one of our major bench problems. There was no leader on the court to help the other players. No discredit to daniels but he is past his prime and its sad to see because he is a class act. But does anyone try and think as to why julian and hilton may have had off years? and why they play well with cp? (other than him being cp) They are used to playing with a dynamic point, and pargo was that to a lesser extent. Defences had to pay attention to him and that opened up avenues for wright and armstrong and this year we didnt have that. But now with collison we have a true young, athletic leader who can get the rest of the players in their comfort zone. I am really looking forward to the summer league so that collison-thornton-wright form strong chemistry that translate to carrer years (at least for ju-ju, good rookie seasons for collison/thornton). The 56 win team had the same frontcourt, except a healthy chandler, but a different backcourt so i think bower saw that and picked up a winner in collison
also the more i read about blair the more they said his game reminded them of robert tractor taylor and i would not want to be the one who drafted him
#14
sergio_alj
07/12/09 05:10 PM
Hi people!!
I´m from Portugal and I am a big Hornets fan!
Which Hornet´s player (s) is going to be trade?
Hi5 from Portugal!!
#15
joe
07/12/09 05:29 PM
Summer League Update
Collison and Thornton looked very promising
collison - 19 pts (6-13, 7-7ft) 6 assists (3 turnovers), 5 rebounds and looked in control at all times
thornton- 22 pts (8-19, 1-5 3's, 5-6ft) and 6 rebounds, did alright on defence got burnt a couple of times but was giving effort. Rebounded very well for his size especially on the offensive side
Other Notes
Julian played with alot of energy, leading our teams with 7 rebounds had at least 2 nice putbacks, also had 3 blocks, shot 7-13 but took a few bad shots
Big Men were all kind of dissapointing, tolliver looked ok and barron had a nice block but that was pretty much it
#16
bigindian15
07/12/09 07:27 PM
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-42-61/David-Thorpe-Livetweeting-From-Summer-League.html
Like Joe said, David Thorpe loved Collison and Thornton. Yatpatel, I just can't agree that Collison was a retarded pick. If we don't want CP playing 43 minutes per game for 2 straight months, we needed a backup, plain and simple
#17
joe
07/12/09 07:52 PM
One thing i did really like about thornton that i really cant say about many players was that when his jumpshot wasnt falling (it was okay but went through several stretches where either he was on fire or was missing everything) he decided to drive and go to the boards picking up 2 nice 3 point plays and 2 tough put back plays
#18
cpthunda
07/12/09 10:37 PM
I don't think Collison was a bad pick, I think most of us felt/feel that getting frontcourt help was priority no.1 and when Blair fell to us we anticipated the Hornets getting him. Before the injury stuff came out he was a legit lotto pick. It was the combo surprise of us not getting Blair and getting a player in Collison who was on nobody's radar. C'mon if we got Blair NOBODY would be saying "man I can't believe we didn't get Collison." Both he and Thorton should do well, they have very simple roles and have hardly any presssure on them right now. I think its good to see them playing well with Juju forming a nice three man crew .
#19
berlinhornets
07/13/09 08:49 AM
I really like the idea of JuJu starting instead of Peja. It gives Peja some more rest and JuJu has always been better when given more minutes and playing alongside CP3 (well who isn't?). Wright played well in the first summer league game and relied a lot on his jumper which looked steady. Collison was just what I expected: a little like Paul only not that good. This means the change of style wont be that different once Paul leaves the floor. I have to agree with the statement concernig Thornton. He adjusted his shots to the respective situation and was able to create for himself; just what we needed coming of the bench. I really our three young guns yesterday. What cost us the game where the bigs. I would't want any of them n my team. Can anybody explain how signing of summer leauge players works. Does the respective team the player is on have the first say in signing a player (like a resticted free agent)?
When we keep TC and he stays healthy I am pretty optimistic regarding the next season.
#20
Ryan Schwan
07/13/09 12:20 PM
I think Peja off the bench is a good idea. I know I talked about the same idea earlier this season, I believe, hoping Byron might try it.
I'll probably do an evaluation of it this week.
Teams simply extend offer/requests to players for a spot on their summer league. You cannot offer a spot on your team to a player under contract with another team.
There are a few players playing for teams other than their own in the summer league, but that's because their team didn't field a summer league entry, and arranged with another team to allow their interested players to join them.
www.hornets247.com #21
berlinhornets
07/13/09 01:02 PM
Just read something that might affect the hornets. The Pistins traded two players to the Nuggets. Because of this tarde they have 3,5mio.$ more in cap space. Since they lack a starting center wouldn't it be logical them to ask for TC. The Hornets would get back Kwame and Jason Maxiel (including the 3,5 mio the Pistons are under the cap they could take the difference in salaries). I don't like whether I really like this trade, but Kwame is expiring and Maxiel only 5 mio over the next couple of years. What do you think, could this happen?
#22
bigindian15
07/13/09 05:17 PM
@berlinhornets: I think it could happen, and Maxiel is a good backup big, but I really don't want Kwame Brown lol. Then again, we will finally find out if he's worth anything. If playing with CP can't make him average, then nothing will.
#23
urgmasdaughter
07/13/09 06:03 PM
I do not want Kwame "hands of stone" Brown. I saw him play in LA & Kobe couldn't even make him look good so who knows if he has a prayer with CP. Maxiel is appealing but it is an option for sure. I'd like a Chandler - Butler/Daniels for a Maxiel - Prince/Hamilton package more only because they are desperate for a big man. But then again I don't know the contracts of Prince/Hamilton & that may be too much to ask for so who knows all I'm sayin is vote No on Brown.
#24
yatpatel
07/13/09 06:25 PM
it's definitely not that i hate collison...but when you draft the 22nd or whatever pick we had, you expect a guy to play more than 10 minutes a game, which is the most collison will play...our starting frontcourt (peja, west, tyson) is great if they're all healthy, which none of them consistently were last season...and we all know Tyson is likely to be traded either this summer or before the trade deadline...so who comes in to spell these guys when they're resting/injured/traded??? JuJu can fill in adequately for Peja, but what else? Hilton? Sean Marks? Ely? Please...at least with Blair or another big man we could have had a serviceable backup big to throw out there for 15-20 minutes a game...
#25
bigindian15
07/13/09 06:57 PM
"but when you draft the 22nd or whatever pick we had, you expect a guy to play more than 10 minutes a game, which is the most collison will play"
Dude, most late first round picks are either crap or never play in the NBA. Someone that could spell CP for 10-15 minutes per game and provide decent production would be GREAT at the 22nd pick. Not every guy can be Tony Parker or Paul Millsap (undrafted) in late picks
Magic matched Mavs, retain Gortat. All of a sudden...it's down to Spurs and Lakers as the only teams in the West who have improved, barring a conclusion to the Paul Millsap situation
#26
lilrip133
07/14/09 04:54 PM
I've pretty much accepted that we won't be doing anything of significance this summer to improve. McDyess is out of the picture, we can't really afford anything else, and nobody wants any of our guys for their current price. I'm still sour about the Collison pick simply because we could've drafted Thornton alone and possibly set ourselves better for the future without Collison in it. Those 2 future 2nd round picks probably won't amount to anything, but it's just the simple fact that there's a possibility that they could've amounted to just as much, if not more than an average guy like Collison.
And I highly doubt Detroit makes a move that would use up some of the salary cap space theyve opened. They're shooting for 2010 and everybody knows that. Plus a Villanueva/ Maxiell frontcourt isn't too bad in the big-man shallow nba these days. I think they're just about right where they'd like to be to set themselves up for the future.
#27
lilrip133
07/14/09 05:01 PM
please no on the big baby for posey trade. that would be highway robbery, with us being the ones getting robbed. but i am somewhat optomistic about the future. in the next few years we'll a) get rid of the worst player in the nba (devin brown), b) possibly get a new coach (not saying that byron won't come back, but if something better comes along, we should jump all over it) c) clear a ton of cap space and get hilton armstrong off the books, and d) as long as we have cp we're never completely out of contention. and joe johnson coming to town would be dream come true status. two of my favorite players uniting, and not only that but they play complementing games *harlem shakes for joy*
#28
urgmasdaughter
07/14/09 07:04 PM
So our list of centers a couple weeks ago now looks like:
Antonio McDyess - Spurs
Brandon Bass - Magic
Marcin Gortat, Chris Andersen, Anderson Varejao & Zaza Pachulia - Resigned
What being patient has left us with:
Drew Gooden
Glen Davis
Joe Smith
Jamaal Magloire
Chris Wilcox
Rasho Nesterovic
The list was bad to begin with, now it is offensive to even look it at
#29
untitled1018
07/14/09 10:37 PM
I guess maybe I don't know enough about basketball, because I don't understand hoping for the Hornets to make a 'big move' or hoping the team gets rid of Chandler. I think he still had better stats than any other center on the team last season. And he was injured. The Hornets drafted (what look to be) a very capable back up for Paul and a talented scorer. Two things we lacked last season. With Chandler healthy, the team is at least as good as 07-08's 56 win team. They threw a handful of at-best-back-up bigs and Hilton Armstrong at the front court last season behind a playing injured or not playing at all Chandler and still managed to make the playoffs. Instead of messing with what works, I think patience and taking opportunities as they present themselves is a good call.
#30
saltandcarbon
07/15/09 12:04 AM
Is there an obvious reason I'm missing that Club-mitt Armstrong isn't playing in the Summer League? He could probably use the practice and confidence... Have the front office given up on him, or do they think he's past needing Summer League? Or is it that embarassing to have a fourth year player on Summer league roster?
#31
Niall Doherty
07/15/09 07:22 AM
I think you're only eligible for summer league your first three seasons in the NBA. After that you should either a) not suck anymore, or b) suck so much that you shouldn't be in the NBA.
www.ndoherty.com #32
Ryan Schwan
07/15/09 10:45 AM
Actually, players can play in the summer league at any age. Typically they do not after their third season. Nate Robinson played four seasons - though only two games in his fourth season.
Nate even had his number retired by the Summer League, which is pretty weird.
www.hornets247.com #33
yatpatel
07/17/09 12:20 PM
to "untitled788" - i don't think most of us are hoping for any big moves, but with the luxury tax line being where it is, we all think it's inevitable that Chandler goes...of course we're better off with him, especially if he can come back healthy...that said, i don't even think a healthy Chandler makes us as good as that 07-08 squad...for one, peja is DONE, pure and simple...west is still good but a little older and probably never gonna match that season...the only other big moves since then are adding posey and subtracting pargo, which maybe i'd call a wash (given posey's age and recent injuries)...CP3 has improved but no one else has...plus that team caught a lot of people by surprise, which simply isn't happening anymore...the lakers have improved since then, and the spurs have reloaded with R-Jeff and a potential steal in Blair...now all we can hope for is to be competitive enough that CP wants to stay...frankly, i have my doubts...
#34
LSUhornet
07/17/09 01:00 PM
Anybody hear anything about Leon Powe? I know he blew out his knee and won't be ready for the beginning of the year, but I'd have to think he'd come pretty cheap. Isn't this the second time he's torn an ACL? He was a beast the last two years in the paint and I think he'd be a perfect fit if (and it's a BIG if) he can return to form. I know it wouldn't be a solution now, but down the road the Hornets should keep an eye on him.
#35