46.5.
That's what the ESPN experts arrived at for the number of wins we can expect the Hornets to produce this year. That rounds up to 47, which ties them on ESPN's list as the 6th seed in the West. A year ago, the Hornets were generally expected to win at least ten more than that, and to contend for the Western Conference crown. What a difference a year and the Game Which Will Not Be Named can make in expectations for a team.
So, are those expectations warranted? Niall asked what all of you thought would make a successful season, and we've seen some pretty different views, but in general the expectations are somewhat north of 50 wins for the team.
My take? I'll channel Spock and state "47 wins is illogical."
My 5-point reasoning:
- When Tyson was traded for Emeka Okafor, we compared Okafor's production last year to Tyson's last healthy year. It was, essentially, a wash. However, Tyson only played 52 games last year, and when he did play only gave 75% of the production he did in his last healthy year. Therefore, Okafor isn't a minor upgrade, he's a major one over what the Hornets got last year.
- Rasual Butler was a below-average producer by every statistical measure, yet he soaked up the third most minutes on the team. Butler is gone, and appears likely to have his minutes taken by Peja, Posey and Wright, all of whom produce more. Peterson could also mix in, and he should produce essentially the same.
- Ike Diogu was signed to replace minutes given to Hilton Armstrong and Melvin Ely. Hilton Armstrong and Melvin Ely were two of the least productive players in the entire NBA last year. Diogu has already proven he's better than that. Any minutes he takes will be a gain for the Hornets.
- The injuries we saw last year will probably be about what we'll see this year.(Minus Tyson's struggles, since he's gone) Maybe Peja misses more than 61 games with that balky back, but the rest of the team doesn't have any worrisome injury history that we should be alarmed about.
- Daniels won't be any worse than we saw last year. It's possible Collison may be better.
If you take all of the above, how does it make sense that the Hornets will win 2 less games than last year? It seems to me that the Hornets will be fielding a team very similar in talent as the one two years ago that won 56 games. Of course, I'll also be the first to admit the team probably overacheived by a few games in 2007-2008, so, at least until I run the numbers like I do every season, I'm settling on 53 wins for the Hornets next season. What do you all think?
Finally, in honor of the Lowered Expectations title, here's a great "Lowered Expectations" dating service clip from MAD TV, a show that was damn good during its initial four or five seasons. I had a hard time deciding between Eddie Murphy, Keanu Reeves, Mrs. Barone or Bjork.(One leg is Easter . . . one leg is Christmas . . . come and visit me betweeeeeen the Holidays!)
I went with Keanu. Enjoy . . . doods.


20 intriguing comments post your own
ticktock6
09/02/09 02:31 PM
Well done. I have to say, I get pretty sick of it when people ignore numbers. "____ is a better point guard than Chris Paul. Stats aren't everything." "Kobe Bryant did too have a better individual season in 08-09 than Chris Paul. How dare you ask why? Because he's Kobe." You want to come up with a good argument why X is true? Please do. You want to offer some evidence that the stats are off in some way? I will read it. But I generally find that the "stats aren't everything" crowd is more likely basing their empty statement on "I don't understand or value stats, therefore they are not important." That is a huge fallacy. I don't understand all of the more complicated statistical formulas either. But I love that other people do. And I appreciate the interesting things they can tell us about the game. I see no numerical reason why the Hornets should be worse than last year, unless everyone's injured at once (and that was really what killed the season once and for all-- the stretch before the All Star break where 3/5 to 4/5 of the starting lineup was hurt at the same time).
hornetshype.com #1
420ftJesus
09/02/09 05:11 PM
I agree with your analysis 100%.
- Full disclosure, I'm a mathematician by training and a statistician by trade. (I just wish I had the data you have, Ryan. And the keen basketball mind, which I'll never have.)
Stuff can always happen, but there's no reason to think the Hornets haven't kept pace with the other teams in the league as a whole, even if teams like Cleveland (2 games against us) seem to have improved dramatically, so why predict a decrease?
It seems to me that, say, 2/3 of sports writers just say the trend from last year continues, and 1/3 says the opposite. No analysis. I hate most of these mindless opiners. ESPN, sadly, is full of them.
It's hard to separate the news from the entertainment.
I said 57 and up is a successful season in my book. What I predict is something else, I suppose. I'll say 52 (spliiting the difference; yes, fairly mindless and cowardly, but I'm not claiming to be a journalist).
#2
wuggie
09/02/09 06:03 PM
Wow I really, really hope that we shock them like 08-07, because some are starting too really look at that playoff series as how the future will look. Man I guess it makes sense from their point of view(with 58 points loss...), but being me I can't see it happening at all. I hope They do realize and take in consideration that we had picky injuries....Alot of them. NO DEPTH, NO CENTER at times, NO BACKUP PG (I mean damn we had DEVIN BROWN backing up CP3 at once lol) and some OLD players. ADD ALL THAT TOGETHER in any other teams equation your looking well, not 49 wins.(should have been like 52 or 53 tho)
#3
Lancelot
09/02/09 06:48 PM
i honestly don't understand how anyone could predict that we have a season similar to last season.
during pre-season last year, and even early into the year people were buzzing (sorry) about us. it wasn't until tyson was first injured, peja got hurt, the trade was rescinded, and cp, and david west started logging ridiculous minutes that things really started to go downhill.
everyone talked about how rough the nuggets played during the first roung, but honestly they were doing what they should. they were playing with a killer instinct, against a reeling, injured, and mentally defeated team. after the trade was rescinded, we simpley weren't the same.
given the obvious upgrades that we've made during the offseason, i don't understand how we could idle like most are predicting that we will.
darren collinson is an amazing improvement over what we were offered from antonio daniels last year. worst case scenario he performs just as daniels did (he won't). best case scenario, he performs well, and can lead the second unit, and allow cp to get real rest. that's about the best that we could ask for.
i consider julian moving to the first unit, and taking the place of rasual to be a huge upgrade. he plays with much more energy, and running alongside chris paul gives us tons more energy on the court. playing with cp relieves julian of his thinking duties, and allows cp to create plays for him. rasual never did much more other than spotting up, and the occasional dribble drive-to-pull up jumper in the lane, and that didn't exactly keep defenses on their toes.
we've already seen how okafor should offer improvement over tyson, but i'm more excited about diogu coming off the bench. i see him as a bargain brandon bass, and i look to him to bring energy off the bench in the second unit, along with collinson, marks, posey, thornton/mo pete. hopefully with a second unit consisting of those guy we can condemn armstrong/brown to the end of the bench.
even whenever we were injured last year we were able to compete with the "elite" teams in the league. i think by making the moves that we did, you will see us steal more wins from those elite teams. i would just like to see us rid ourselves of the stupid mistakes that we made against teams that we should have slaughtered last year (kings, timberwolves, nets, etc).
52+ win season, top 4 seeding, deep second round. i like the idea of us being a sleeper team, but i think we've poised to make big moves.
#4
johnny_utah
09/02/09 07:03 PM
You have to take into consideration that other teams have improved also. We can't focus only on what we've done to get better and assume more wins because we're also assuming there's no improvement or change from the rest of the league. I think 47 is low but I don't expect much more. Certainly hope I'm wrong.
#5
Mark
09/02/09 07:16 PM
It feels like a cheap cop out number. When you know a team is mid/lower seed playoff-esque, the mid 40s are obvious. But obviously injuries are a scary part of the game, and aside from 08, we haven't really had a big injury free season in recent years, so we'll see. CP didn't do Olympics this year, so that's a great sign.
But that said, I don't think 46 wins is too far from what I would say. Like johnny_utah said, the bad teams are getting younger, the good teams are getting better, so the league's overall talent has improved. As long as we trust our young'ns and give them PT, we should do better than 46.
www.dogpile.com/ #6
Lancelot
09/02/09 07:36 PM
am i just completely naive in the fact that i really don't think the "elite" teams out west have made THAT large of a leap forward??
lakers - swapped ronron for ariza, essentially. at best he'll provide only slightly better man-to-man defense, and it's not exactly like the lakers had a ton more points to distribute around, so it's not like he'll be given more shots. not to mention he's a complete wild card. i honestly don't see him making that big of a difference. the lakers will continue to be THE team out west, but it's not like he makes them unbeateable.
spurs - didn't we take 3 of 4 from these guys last year? timmy isn't going to stay healthy all season, and i'm really not sure that jefferson even fits that well into this system. if anything, i think that he, and their other pickups are pretty much just insurance for whenever tony parker, ginobli, and timmy inevitably go down at some point this year. their sun is setting, and i'll honestly be surprised if they're in the top 4.
nuggets - sacrificed 50% of their bench energy by moving JR into their starting lineup, and lost their lock down defender by letting dahntay jones walk to the pacers. i think their performance last year might have been a flash in the pan.
jazz - team chemistry has to play a huge factor into this whole ordeal. sure millsap is going to step in and be a poor man's boozer, and the production will be there, and everything is going to be fine, but until their unload boozer the locker room is going to be very awkward, making for reall awkward on court team chemistry.
mavericks - i actually like a lot of the improvement that they've made over the offseason, but they're just one of the teams whose number we have, and i really don't see them making a deep run, or being able to knock us off, should we face them in the playoffs.
blazers - pretty much the only team in the western conference that i'm scared of. i'll leave it at that.
#7
Caleb462
09/02/09 08:45 PM
lancealot - you are neglecting a few things with the spurs. They got Mcdyess, and while sure he's pretty old - he remains one of the most quietly effective big men in the league. They also got Dejuan Blair, who looks to be a great garbage man type backup big, crashing the boards and playing D. They now have some serious frontcourt depth. That helps if Timmy struggles to stay healthy. If he doesn't, then they are a monster up front.
Its the same with Jefferson... he gives them insurance if Ginobli is out. Now of course he's not nearly the player Ginobli is, but he's a better option than Roger Mason that's for sure. And then like I said with the frountcourt, if Ginobli *is* healthy... then they are pretty stacked in the backcourt and wings too.
While I think it will be difficult for them to challenge the Lakers, I really wouldn't be surprised to see them in the conf. finals or even the Finals. All that said, I still think the Hornets will be able to challenge them - perhaps tie the season series. The Bees get up for the Spurs more than any other team I think
As for the nuggets, I also have a feeling that they will have a "come back to earth" type year, but who knows? Getting Ty Lawson was a steal... he'll be a great backup.
I think the Blazers could improve... and I expect them to atleast stand pat and be a 55-ish win team with a killer offense.
Marion I think helps the Mavs some but I don't see them really being more than the "pretty good team" they've been for years now, and the Hornets do seem to have their number lately. We'll see what happens.
neworleansbasketball.blogspot.com #8
downtowndave78
09/03/09 10:17 AM
Good point Johnny...
I won't make any predictions about the W's for this year because it is impossible to know what is going to happen with our unit or any other team, but I will say that for me the two biggest factors that are driving my curiosity for 09-10 are Omeka and the bench.
I am a little surprised that fans are calling Omeka an equal swap (ability wise- defense vs. offense) but an improvement (health wise) with regards to Chandler. Look, I like Chandler a lot, but the guy was limited offensively, injury prone, usually in foul trouble, and I'm sorry, any person who thinks the referees need to change their game calling rather than the player changing their game play probably won't grow very much more as a player at this level. If Omeka's numbers for his career really reflect what he is capable of on the court (I am not familiar with his game at all) I think he is going to be huge addition teamed up with CP3. Or at least I hope this is the case. I don't have the basketball mind like most of you do, but I think it is common sense to notice that teams were able to really smother CP3 and West because no one else was performing last year, and Omeka's game (by the numbers) should open things up for everyone- especially CP3 & West.
Omeka...rookie of the year, statistically rivals D Howard and T Duncan with regards to consistency.....played for the Bobcats (really, I didn't know that they still had a team).........hhhmmmmm...... did we just unleash a new monster trio into the NBA? I honestly don't know, but I am hoping that this addition is much larger than people are predicting. What do you think?
HHHMMMMMM I was trying to remember the last time the Hornets had a true offensive threat at the center position........wow, it's been a long time!!!!! This will be fun.
The bench- very simple...we need to get better, and I don't know if we will. Championship caliber teams have GREAT bench players and depth. Are we there? Probably not, but only time will tell if we are any closer to where we need to be.
GEAUX HORNETS 09-10
#9
Caleb462
09/03/09 04:06 PM
Omeka has the edge on offense but Chandler definitely has the defensive edge - thats why some people have called it a wash.
neworleansbasketball.blogspot.com #10
The_big_H
09/03/09 06:39 PM
If you go by Wages of Wins:
CP3 (~30 wins) and Emeka (~15wins ) will combine to win ~45 games (provided they play close to 82 games. So 46.5 wins is so far off its not funny.
When healthly this is a 55+ win team
ESPN's hacks need to be fired
#11
bigindian15
09/03/09 09:03 PM
Question: are we now calling it the Game Which Will Not Be Named? Does the game have an actual name, or is it just Voldemort? Did I miss the boat on this one?
#12
Ryan Schwan
09/03/09 10:49 PM
That's what I've been calling it since it happened. The only other way to refer to it is by talking about the results, and those numbers are too awful to repeat.
Besides, the game looms over the team like a sulfurous shadow, emanating malice and doubt . . . so a reference to Voldemort works.
www.hornets247.com #13
Andrew
09/04/09 02:51 AM
The one thing missing in your analysis is that while we may be better slightly, it appears most of the teams at the top have appeared dramatically, so that may result in less wins despite our imporvement.
#14
Dave
09/04/09 03:17 AM
I think 55 wins is the ball park ... that would be a successful season in my book.
Less than that (50 win area or even less) would be disappointing and more than that (60+ wins) would be hugely successful.
nbaroundtable.wordpress.com/ #15
Ryan Schwan
09/04/09 09:57 AM
I don't actually buy the "Other teams improved too, so the Hornets fell back in the pack" argument. But I already started writing about that when Johnny_utah said it, so I should have a post up about it sometime soon.
I have too many posts half-started though. I'm getting lazy at just finishing stuff.
www.hornets247.com #16
nikkoewan
09/04/09 11:10 AM
i really think the hornets are at least a 50 win team... i too am a mathematician, and currently majoring in mathematics. We are very logical people. So according to logic, with the hornets playing all season long with 60 - 75 % efficiency( with Tyson's injuries, and Peja's back and Posey's knee and Paul's groin) we managed to win 49 wins, that was considering we lost some gimme games( Charlotte, Kings, etc). Now looking into the coming season what has changed?
Paul didn't play for any major basketball event, instead touring around the world, that should help him in the long run and would allow his body to expend energy on this season alone..
Tyson's gone, replaced by Okafor. Much of our struggle last year was due to the fact that we didn't have a bruising big to man the paint. With Emeka in the mix, we would become one of the elite defensive teams in the West again..
Last year our bench was sucky as hell. Why? because with the injuries to key starters last year, all the talent that was left on the bench(if there was any), was needed to man the missing spots due to injury. Armstrong was asked to start at center, so that leaves us with Marks and Ely backing up our bigs. Paul was injured so Brown was used often. Peja was injured so Posey got lots of minutes. But now, looking into a healthy off season, due to an early exit, the Bees look ready to rock and roll. With an improved bench(Collison, Thornton and Diogu), we'd be better equipped to face injury as compared to last year.. Peja gets injured? Insert Wright in the starting lineup, we'd still have Posey to back him up. Paul gets injured? no worries, Collison will take it from here, just rest CP3. Peterson gets injured? Holy Crap! Oh, forgot we got a local boy playing for us. West gets injured? Diogu just scored 42 points!!Woot! Emeka gets injured? MARKS FOR THE WIN!!
#17
ticktock6
09/04/09 04:05 PM
@BigIndian
It's like Voldemort. Or Fight Club.
hornetshype.com #18
joe
09/05/09 05:27 PM
On a side not how about signing Rodney carney as a possible starting 2? Considering only if mo can't get back to his old form, if wright can't adjust to being a 2 or if Thornton just isn't ready. Carney would come cheap since minny just signed sessions, he is young, athletic, a good defender and a dependable shooter, it would definitely be worth looking into
#19
bigindian15
09/06/09 06:40 PM
Rodney Carney is a 3, not a 2 first of all, and second where did you find that he's a reliable shooter? He never really has been one. I don't think he'd contribute much more than Mo Pete/Julian Wright/Thornton. Also, isn't he still under contract with Minny...?
I just realized that Minny signed Sessions after drafting 3 point guards, including 2 in the top 10. Ummm, are they like the Raiders of the NBA now?
#20