The Hornets got trounced tonight in Phoenix, 124-104 ( box | recap ). The Suns put up 40 points in the first quarter, 75 in the first half, and the Hornets never threatened. About what you'd expect when a bad defense meets a good offense.
Some late-night bullets for this one...
Team game vs. Two-man game
The Suns spread the ball around on offense. It's not unusual for all five guys to touch the rock on one possession. There's lots of off-the-ball movement, resulting in defensive confusion and guys popping free for jumpers or layups.
In contrast, the Hornets offense is very much a two-man game. Usually it's Chris Paul working the pick and roll, then dishing directly to a teammate for a shot attempt. Sometimes you might see West or Okafor post up, draw a double team, then kick it to someone for a catch and shoot. Rarely in the Hornets offense is there that extra pass, which makes it very easy for opposing defenses to rotate and challenge shots. This problem seems to have grown out of an over-reliance on the talents of Chris Paul, and the result is a stagnant offense that results in very few easy scoring opportunities.
Defense
Of course, the Hornets' offense hasn't been the problem this season so much as their defense, but the offensive struggles seem to affect the team's defensive effort. Tonight, the defensive rotations again left a lot to be desired, even on simple pick and roll plays that the Suns ran several times.
Worst of all was the rebounding. The final margin on the boards was 45-29. At halftime, the Suns had more offensive rebounds (10) than the Hornets had total rebounds (9). Worse still, the Suns back-up point guard had almost as many rebounds (7) as David West and Emeka Okafor combined (8). Coming into the game, the Suns were averaging as many rebounds per game as their opponents, so they're not exactly beasts on the glass. Tonight they just wanted those rebounds more than our guys did.
And I'll hold back on criticizing David West tonight. He didn't give us much on either end, but I assume hurting his knee early in the game had him playing at half-speed.
Lack of communication
There were many times tonight when it looked like the Hornets just weren't talking to each other. Our guys tried that hybrid zone defense for a stretch in the second half, and often ended up with two players running to cover the same shooter or cutter. I wonder if what we miss most about Tyson Chandler is his vocals on D.
That said, the Hornets don't communicate all very well offensively either. One example: midway through the third quarter, Hilton Armstrong was making a move in the post when, without a word of warning from Hilton's teammates, Grant Hill crept from the wing to double and force a jump ball.
James Posey
Posey has stepped it up offensively on this road trip, averaging almost ten points per game. But I'm still not at all impressed with him this season. He looked like a traffic cone on defense against the Suns. I hope he's still desperately out of shape. If that's the reason for his poor play, at least I can hold out hope that he'll come good later in the season.
The Rookies
Collison again showed nice defensive pressure, repeatedly bothering Dragic on the way up the floor and managing to stay in front of Barbosa a couple of times. He also showed his knack for finishing on the break and in traffic.
Thornton didn't shoot well (2-6 FGs) and picked up four fouls in 13 minutes. He's still going all out though with the energy and effort, which is what the Hornets need more of.
Devin Brown
Back down to earth for Devin. 3-of-12 shooting in this one, getting his shot blocked numerous times. He also butchered an attempt at the last shot of the first half and couldn't get the ball up the court against single coverage in the third quarter. On the bright side, he never seems to drop his head and he did lead the team with 5 rebounds. Yay.
Hornets back home on Friday to take on the Blazers.
UPDATE: Mr. Kennedy checks in with a post-game Journal report. And some video highlights from NBA.com:
Plus, some interesting comments from David West after the game, via NOLA.com:
“Phoenix is one of the better teams in the league,” said West, “and a team like the Clippers, they’ve got a lot of talent, but I wouldn’t necessarily say in terms of them being entirely bought into what they’re trying to do, they’re in the same class. We’re going to struggle against these good teams because basically what’s happening is we’re just getting systematically beat.
“We’re not getting in a flow. Guys other than C.P. (Chris Paul), he’s the only guy on the team that gets a consistent flow of good looks on a nightly basis. We’re going to struggle when that happens. We’ve got to figure out some new ways to attack because we go against these teams that are indoctrinated into their system, and we’re going to struggle.”


22 legendary comments post your own
MaxALM
11/12/09 01:42 AM
Poor CP. He was really the only thing going for the team. David West really didn't want anything to do with this game. It was like he was paid extra to not rebound. Peja looked like complete dirt, 0 points with many open looks. And Byron Scott decided it was a good idea to play Devin Brown the entire 3rd quarter...even after he caused that pitiful turnover while dribbling the ball upcourt. Oh boy. You're gonna have it admit it someday, Byron...just give it to Marcus Thornton.
#1
Tin_Food
11/12/09 04:07 AM
I know that Juju is looking like another bust, but is it reasonable to think that he could play ok with the second unit with Collison and Thorton?
Everytime i see him it seems that all his problems are mental, and coodination, how many times has he dribbled the ball off his foot? But i think that has to do with his aggresiveness and confidence, he's sort of running around like a headless chicken and so does stupid mistakes. Perhaps i'm just wishing too much that he gets it, he has talent, but seems like he lacks the passion.
#2
saltandcarbon
11/12/09 05:48 AM
@Tin: It's a decent suggestion, and has to be worth a shot. But the chance of Scott giving significant minutes to a lineup including Juju, Buckets and DC is surely in the realm of flying swine, no?
#3
mako
11/12/09 05:53 AM
Team game vs two man game described the problem well - and it's not just this game. It seems like hornets don't have any other idea offensively. All goes pretty well when long shots are going well. But there is no inside game - except CP driving to the basket. Where's West with his inside aggresiveness from 2007, 2008? Combined with 18 foot killing machine it was great mixture. Now ball goes to West, he waits, gets doubled, nothing happens - or turnover happens. Don't mention reboundig problem which is also nothing new.
#4
stormsurge
11/12/09 08:30 AM
Niall, Buckets may have fouled a lot, but he also drew more than anyone else. He spent a lot of time at the line.
www.stormsurgephoto.com #5
Mikey
11/12/09 08:38 AM
"This problem seems to have grown out of an over-reliance on the talents of Chris Paul, and the result is a stagnant offense that results in very few easy scoring opportunities."
I've given that alot of thought over the last year or so, and you are exactly right on this one. Just look at least year's team assist stats. Chris Paul, tops in the league, bt the Hornets, as a team, are near the bottom of the league in assists. That has everything to do with over-reliance on one player to dominate the ball for 18 seconds of shot-clock time on every possession.
#6
Mikey
11/12/09 08:40 AM
The bulk of the Hornets' problems are on defense though. I'm calling the Hornets defense the "archdiocese" becuase its so holy.
#7
Niall Doherty
11/12/09 09:20 AM
My theory is that if the offense improves, the defense should also improve. The Hornets spent all of training camp playing defense against their own offense, which isn't all that creative. Now they're playing against good offensive teams and they have no idea how to stop them. "Wait, you mean they're going to pass the ball more than three times in 24 seconds? I'm not sure we can handle that."
Not to mention that an improved offense and easier looks at the basket usually translates to more enthusiasm and lighter feet on the defensive end.
www.ndoherty.com #8
LSUhornet17
11/12/09 09:50 AM
We need an offensive overhaul. I was skeptical of all the "team has quit on Scott" talk last year, but it's getting harder not to believe. The offense is one thing, but effort is entirely different.
Quote from Stan Van Gundy: "We're a bad basketball team right now," he said. "If your team isn't playing hard and not defending, that's an indictment of you as a coach."
Well consider B.Scott indicted.
West's quotes sounds like they're coming form someone who has absolutely no faith in the team's offensive schemes. I would think that translates directly to the lack of effort out there on the defensive end. I don't know what coach could construct an offense that would work well without a NBA starting caliber SG or SF on the roster, but I'm starting to lose confidence that B. Scott will be able to get us out of this funk.
#9
corndeaux
11/12/09 09:55 AM
offense has two problems: lack of talent and lack of imagination. i know the players other than cp are limited, but we saw movement and an offense against the celtics- arguably the best defense in the league. where has that gone?
no amount of scoring will help our defense. i would settle for one box out per game right now.
#10
Tony
11/12/09 10:34 AM
Hate to continue to beat this, but firing Byron isn't going to help anything. This is obviously a cash straped franchise, and if the Hornets fired Byron, they would still have to pay him which mean less money for the players. Lets just think about this, there have only been 6 champinship coaches in the last 20 years, every other coach has been fire except for Jerry Sloan in that time.
Look at Doc Rivers, he got fired in Orlando after Tracy McGrady's time there looked similar to CP3's now, then he got his job with an ok team in the Celtics that didn't make any improvements and eventually turned into a bad team and people were calling for his head by 2007. In 2008 they landed Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett, they become the best team in the NBA, they won a championship, and al of a sudden Doc was a great coach. Look at Mike D'Antoni in New York now. I'm not defending Byron as much as I'm saying that coaching in general is overrated.
The difference between the Magic and the Hornets is that the Magic are possibly the deepest team in the league while the Hornets might be the most shallow. If the Magic with all the talent they have can't be a great BBall team than SVG should be questioned. The Hornets have three recently good players in CP3, West, and Okafor
after that you have
Devin Brown-Never been a starter anywhere, except for in N.O. the year BEFORE they made the playoffs, he's now 31, that was also the year he avereged a career best 11.6 ppg, wow.
Mo Pete-Last good season 4 years ago in Toronto, which was also his best season, he's 32, was also the last season he was a good starter.
James Posey-Last good season 6 years ago in Memphis, he's 32, been in steady decline ever since
Hilton Armstrong-Bust
Peja-Again, 32 years old, history of back problems among other injuries, had a fluke year the year they went to the second round, had his best season 6/7 years ago
Darius Songaila-Never been a starter, never averaged more than ten points, 31 years old
C'Mon guys, I don't know what else to say, trying to squeeze water from a rock here. This is a bad team, thats why they are not motivated. They play like a bad team because they are a bad team, watch some of the other bad teams play and you'll notice a lot of similarities between them and the Hornets.
#11
YoungFella
11/12/09 10:50 AM
Posey is a veteran player so he knows how to look decent when he has the ball or he's guarding somebody on the ball, but you can bust him when he's off ball and is surprised by a pass - he's totally not trying. He's been pulling this crap since early last season. He mails it in.
I guess he can fool some people by making a few 3-pointers into saying "oh, Posey had a good game tonight", but realistically he's contributing to the loss of soul and character of this franchise.
#12
CP3 4 MVP!
11/12/09 10:51 AM
Alright. So, this has been in the back of my mind since game 3. Nail, please comment, because I'm curious if I'm completely insane or this actually does make sense.
What do we need: Too many things. But first and formost, DEVIN BROWN is 1 in our SG rotation (foreshadowing). Sure, Thornton looks good, but the system doesn't suit him right now and I'm not sure he'll get a real shot anytime soon. And, for God's sake, some offense. I would pay the full midlevel (haha as if we had it, thanks James) for a 2 guard who would score over ten and shoot 40%
Which brings me to my solution (Gulp). Allen Iverson.
Before you chastise me, hear me out.
What does Allen Iverson want? 1. A starters role, Done. 2. An important role and a lot of minutes (he can have plenty). 3. To win. (Heyy, us toooo)
What are the problems with Allen Iverson?
He has to be the number 1 scoring option - Who has the only team where the superstar would happily pass that role on to someone who could do it?
He is an offcourt distraction - I believe in CP3, that it to say that If there was one superstar who Allen Iverson would enjoy playing with, it should be CP3, due to his uncanny unselfishness.
What can't the hornets do? - Spend a lot of money. No problem.
So, a future hall of famer, scoring machine, paid next to nothing, who is unhappy because he's on a team that can't win and is on the bench.
The hornet's have the talent to win (with AI) and we would happily start him. So, what's the issue?
Sorry, im as skeptical about AI as everyone else, but there doesn't seem to exist a better fit for both parties anywhere in the league. (And yes, that does suggest that we have the WORST SG ROTATION IN THE LEAGUE, as if I actually had to say that)
What do you think?
P.S. Who would be a better mentor for buckets than AI with fire up his a$$?
#13
Niall Doherty
11/12/09 10:52 AM
Tony, I agree with you that Byron isn't solely to blame for the Hornets problems, but he's certainly not part of the solution right now. True, the Hornets don't have a great roster, but I don't believe they should be getting blown out consistently. The roster isn't THAT bad.
Management is stuck between a rock and a hard place though, due to the lack of $$$. Firing Byron would cost money, and there's no guarantee they'd find a better replacement.
www.ndoherty.com #14
corndeaux
11/12/09 11:17 AM
@Tony- byron is getting his 5million or whatever it is this year whether he is canned or not. the hornets would make someone on the staff-maybe bower- interim hc and then hopefully find a good, young, cheap, nba assistant to come in.
bottom line on byron- he is not coming back next year unless this team gets to the 2nd round of the playoffs.... my question is why hasn't he been fired yet? what is there to gain by keeping a guy who won't be back next year and whose players dont care?
i think byron has done a good job overall in his time here and the gm moves certainly didn't help. but as tony points out- everyone gets fired in the nba. whatever he is selling, the players aren't buying. time to go.
#15
corndeaux
11/12/09 11:20 AM
one more thing- there is a reason byron only got a 2 year extension when he was looking for 4 or 5. bower, to his credit, knew the players- as most nba players do for any coach- would tire of byron's shtick. could anyone imagine if he was still on the hook for 2 or 3 more years?
#16
YoungFella
11/12/09 12:07 PM
I think since this season is obviously going to be horrible, Scott should let CP3 go for the scoring title. He's so competitive that this may give him some small measure of satisfaction (as well as build his legacy for posterity) and keep him interested.
#17
berlinhornets
11/12/09 12:24 PM
This season really seems to be interesting. On the one hand we have the arguably deepest roster the hornets had for a long time, but we are still only losing. to be honest the mavs should have been a loss and the kings game was luck too. so it could have been 1-8 right now. but its not only the losing but those poundings the hornets recieve all the time. The margins by which the hornets lose make me think that there wont be any real turnaround this season.
I would like (well not really like, but I would be curious) to see Iverson in hornets jersey too. The offense would totaly change, but it'd be worth a try.
As for a coaching change; I dont see it either but it might help giving even a losing season a meaning: playing the rookies more. Unfortunately they will go back to the doghouse after their 6-10 game trial, wont develop and this would be a huge loss for the upcoming season.
#18
LSUhornet17
11/12/09 12:32 PM
per ESPN: Hornets fire Scott.
#19
LSUhornet17
11/12/09 12:36 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4648162
#20
Chung
11/12/09 12:42 PM
Official press conference for firing will be at 1:00pm. needed to be done. the team gives up whenever it falls behind. Maybe he tried to stick with the veterans early on cause he knew this was coming.
#21
Andrea
11/12/09 12:44 PM
I seriously can't believe I rushed home from work to see that...thing (can't call it a game) last night. I mean I've seen Phoenix play this year so I knew how good they were but I didn't know how bad the our guys are this year. Still, I surprisingly unsurprised by the way it played out.
#22