Hey folks, I'll be filling in for Ryan and Niall from time to time, and tonight is one of those times. Given my handle, I'd make a joke about Medieval Times, but there's probably plenty of time for that later. Anyway, the important thing is the basketball, and that is what we're all here for.
The Hornets got back on the winning track tonight, beating the visiting Clippers 110-102 at the Hive. I can't feign surprise at this, even given all the Hornets' issues, seeing as how Los Angeles is terrible. Of course, that also makes trying to gain any real insight from this game a difficult task, but I will give it my best shot anyway.
The first point of order: Why is Devin Brown playing? More importantly, why is he starting? It may seem ridiculous to bag on the guy when he drops 16 points on the stat sheet, but look at the shooting percentage (40 percent) and turnovers (three). How can playing Marcus Thornton (40 percent shooting and ZERO turnovers) more be any worse of an option? I really think its time Thornton started getting 30 minutes a game instead of 20. After all, we all want to see how good he can be. I'm pretty sure we know about Brown at this point.
And I know someone will try to tell me Brown should be out there for veteran leadership. Or something like that anyway. So what is he doing letting himself get taken out on a basic ball screen at the end of the half for an easy three? That made the score 58-53 instead of 58-50 at the break. Not an unforgiveable sin, but not exactly a very heady play either. Also, no two-for-one at the end of the third quarter? Sean Marks canned a long one to make that decision less of a painful one, but he had enough to time to create a decent shot and give his team an extra possession ... and yet he didn't do it.
Brown nailed an early three, one minute in, and I had high hopes. Of course he then followed it up by bouncing one off his leg. He was bailed out in the lane several times thanks to poor Clippers defense, but you just aren't going to see that every night. "Poor Clippers defense" was a pretty consistent theme the whole night, and it had as much to do with the final result as anything.
Contrast his play with that of Darren Collison, and it looks all the more jarring.
Collison finished with 12 points on 6-of-11 shooting, and added six assists (to just two turnovers) with three rebounds. He finished on the break. He showed a pretty pull-up jumper, a great floater ... the kid just knows how to score from 12 feet in. Chris Paul has really taken him under his wing, as CP3 seems to be bending his ear at every timeout, and I think you can see that manifesting itself on the court.
Also, I think I'm developing a man crush on Collison, if only because he gives me hope the Pargo grumbling will finally go away (a man can always dream).
The Hornets had trouble putting this one away, but that's going to be the case every night until Paul comes back. 7-0 became 10-10 very quickly, and we saw that repeatedly throughout the night. Hornets build a lead, Clippers come back. Wash, rinse, repeat.
If Steve Novak cans that three at the 2:40 mark, and if David West doesn't crash the offensive boards on the ensuing Hornets possession, this sucker might be a loss. But you take the positives where you can right now, and I'm not going to look those gift horses in the mouth. Realistically, that sequence locked the win up right there, and that kind of ruthlessness (particularly from West) has been lacking this year. It was nice to see it return, even if it came a little late for most fans' tastes.
All in all, I'm happy to be on the winning side once again. And I can't wait to see what Thornton and Collison can do from here on ... it should be fun to watch.
Other thoughts:
- Rasual Butler returns to the Hive. Much ado about nothing? Butler scored 12 points on efficient shooting, and never once hurt his team as near as I could tell. But on second thought, that makes is a perfectly natural return to New Orleans, doesn't it? He was never going to make this game about himself ... he's too big for that.
- Anybody see that infant nearly eat one in the first quarter? What the heck were that kids' parents thinking? I know it must be difficult to turn down courtside seats, but if you've got a three-month old, you might want to keep the kid out of harm's way.
- At 10 minutes in, I'd already lost track of how many times the Hornets were out of position on a rebound and tried to tip it away from behind.
- I like Emeka Okafor, even though he had a rough night. He was smaller than Chris Kaman, and he even looked a little less athletic (is that even possible?), but he worked his way to some good things (seven points and 14 rebounds). Perfect example came late in the first, with him nursing an 0-for-3 night, and the Hornets ran a double screen for him, which got him an easy bucket thanks to his positioning under the hoop. Smart play. He's still as active as ever blocking shots, but given West's lapses, it would help tremendously to have him put more of his energy into rebounding. Of course then he wouldn't be Okafor though.
- What can you say about West? His shot was falling, ergo he was an asset. But the play that still jumps out in my mind was, surprise surprise, an effort play (or rather, a "lack-of" effort play). 2:47 left in the half, West has a ball hit him in the leg. Clipper dives on the ball. West stands there, waving his arms at the ball like he's playing table tennis with it.
- Marcus Camby has the look of a guy who mentally checked out of pro basketball a year ago.
- If Thornton ever starts hitting from outside consistently I think Hornets fans will start being pleasantly surprised by the team's offensive production. He heated up big-time when it mattered in the fourth tonight, canning two threes in quick succession to give the Hornets a 95-79 lead. Prior to that, he'd been ice-cold ... but had still been extremely active and as smooth with the ball as ever.
-
Posey still makes my brain hurt. A "glue" guy is supposed to understand the value of the ball, and should consequently be focused on protecting it. Posey is the polar opposite of that ... his turnover with under 6 minutes to play setting up an easy Clippers bucket was inexcusable.
UPDATE: Check Mr. Kennedy's post-game Journal report. And here's some game highlights from NBA.com. Should we start calling Collison The Little Mermaid?
ANOTHER UPDATE: Jeff Bower's comments post-game.


56 mighty comments post your own
YoungFella
11/17/09 10:56 PM
Hey Chip, I'll take some salt peanuts and a few extra lottery balls.
Tough win tonight - I am disappointed BD wasn't up for this game. Hope this doesn't hurt us come June.
#1
YoungFella
11/17/09 11:00 PM
I didn't mean to just drop a bomb like this - I know quite a few Hornets fans are already in the tank brigade - but am curious as to how many on this site?
The worst thing for this franchise is to win 35 games, miss the playoffs, and have the 13th pick in the draft. That is a recipe for disaster. It is liberally lottery or bust. Anybody agree? Everybody agree?
#2
NIH87
11/17/09 11:01 PM
I agree, YF. What's this and other wins going to mean in May when we're a few picks back from being able to pick future studs like Greg Monroe, Derrick Favors, Montejunas, etc. are too far ahead of us? Sure, I won't mind a win here and now but I'm totally against any runs or 'salvaging this season'. face it, the only way out of this mess is a full blown rebuilding project. Strip the team of bad contracts, add youth, and gain flexibility. Making a miracle run to be an 8th seed doesn't fit that mold. Let's blow this year, get a stud in the draft and be contenders in 2-3 years when Peja, Posey, etc. are off of the books.
#3
Ryan Schwan
11/17/09 11:20 PM
Tanking is lame.
www.hornets247.com #4
The_big_H
11/17/09 11:31 PM
You can't seriously tank after 9 games. That's insane.
.500 is current play-off bound. Ok we are 4 games under .500 but at least try until the all-star break.
#5
hio1515
11/17/09 11:32 PM
Tanking is an insult to the fans who paid money for season tickets (I am not one of those fans, but would be if I lived in the area.). Also why was this recap so negative?
#6
Joe Gerrity
11/17/09 11:37 PM
Chipdouglas, I feel you on Devin Brown. I just can't figure out why he is seeing time when we have so many young guards on the team.
Have you noticed the way he tucks the ball in like Reggie Bu.... err... I mean Pierre Thomas when he goes to the hole? I guess it's better than just losing the rock, but on most nights he has a really hard time taking it out of the tuck and getting it ready for an efficient shot. Tonight was one of his better nights and it still kept him from getting a shot off twice.
I also totally agree about Posey. What happened to him? His D is atrocious when he's not taking charges, he can't shoot the rock anymore, and his veteran leadership seems more mythical than anything else.
As far as the tanking comment goes- If the young guys can play like this and we can win a few games before Paul gets back then we better not do a straight salary dump. It's if we lose a bunch in a row right now that winning gets a little harmful to the future, not only with the draft pick situation, but because we wouldn't dump guys either to get cap room.
I'm in love with the rookies.
What happened to JuJu? Did Scott destroy him?
West needs to get his old theme song back. "mr. west, mr. westboom ba dum dum" He's not the same without it.
#7
LSUhornet17
11/17/09 11:43 PM
I'm so confused as to why people are talking about tanking 12 games into the season. Hoping we lose a ton of games and waste a season to get an unproven rookie is certifiably clueless. I remember one of the guys here doing a post on the odds of landing an all-star in the draft being slim to none. Even landing a solid rotation player is long odds. Unless you get the first or second pick, it's pretty much a crap shoot. Sometimes even then you strike out.
How about hoping for improvement and a playoff run?
We haven't seen this team fire on all cylinders yet, and the coaching change is showing early returns. This season is far from over, and I for one am not counting out any team that has a man named Chris Paul as its PG.
#8
LSUhornet17
11/17/09 11:46 PM
Oh and well done chipdouglas.
#9
The_big_H
11/17/09 11:54 PM
^ Yeah well done chipdouglas. I enjoyed the write up
#10
LSUhornet17
11/17/09 11:54 PM
@Joe Gerrity
What? What did they change West's music to? I haven't made it to a game yet.
#11
QueenBee
11/18/09 12:19 AM
@LSUhornet17 ... West's music says something like "Mr. West is in the building!" I think it may be a snippet of something from Kanye West. I'm not exactly sure though.
#12
QueenBee
11/18/09 12:21 AM
OK I think I found it. It's a song by Chris Brown called Down and Kanye West is featured on it. And I think he begins his verse by saying "Mr. West is in the building".
#13
QueenBee
11/18/09 12:23 AM
I'm not 100% on it but I think that may be it.
#14
LSUhornet17
11/18/09 12:25 AM
Thanks QueenBee. Wonder why they changed it.
#15
TheRonin
11/18/09 12:28 AM
Tanking is not going to happen. Period! Unless you think that Bower's job is safe no matter what happens, which is ludicrous to think now that they made him coach as well. The ultimate, "Put your money where your mouth is," challenge by management.
I just don't see any quit happening with this team unless the guys quit on Bower. I think the team is going to have a, "us against the world," mentality the rest of the season. The guys know that if the team implodes everyone except CP3 is going to be on the hook for getting shipped anywhere and everywhere that will benefit the front office, and no one want to be shipped to the some of the black holes of the league. (no I do not consider us one of them!) The coaching staff is not going to phone it in, as if they don't salvage the season in a real way (i.e. at least the last playoff spot) they ALL are on the street. Maybe Pressy gets a job, but the rest are going to be working the phones like they the working class population of India to just get a scouting gig.
You see by the players reaction to the win and the way they treated Bower in that win, that they understand that HE brought them in, and that means if he goes they have a good chance at going also. I think their reaction to him in the win also proves that the vast majority of the team DEFINITELY quit on Byron for quite some time now. I don't think there is any question of that now. I am really optimistic as to what they can do now that they have to rally to survive.
So to quote the Saints mantra for many years of uncertainty: We Believe!
#16
TheRonin
11/18/09 12:30 AM
as far as the D-West bumper change, I guess he got tired of being told to "Wake up Mr. West!" all game long. He hears that from the defensive coaches all night already. LOL
#17
420ftJesus
11/18/09 12:34 AM
Fact: You play to win the game.
Fact: The two players from the 2005 draft who are all-stars were picked 4th and 17th (according to wikipedia), so every lottery team but 1 missed an all-star, and 3 missed 2.
Fact: There are severe costs to losing (ask Seattleite)
Fact: Ryan Leaf
Fact: The Jazz had the pick that drafted Magic Johnson and traded it away.
Fact: The Hornets had the pick that drafted Kobe "Pink Diamond" Bryant and traded it away.
Fact: The Saints entire history and present.
Fact: The Redskins since Snyder has traded talent away before it could develop and gel.
Fact: We weren't supposed to win 56 games when we did.
Fact: Jeff Bower, though maligned by some people not signing his significant check, was given more and more responsibility over the past several years by the man signing them.
So, what does all this add up to?
Bower isn't going anywhere. And if you don't like that, you don't want him saddling the team with what you would assume to be burdensome contracts he can get for trading 'Magic'-like draft picks away, even if he can identify them in a way no one else can.
So you should want him to make the playoffs, right? To limit his damage to the franchise? So you root for him because he's horrible?
Or is everything I concluded from those facts equally insane as just saying give up and completely retool the franchise because if 2 games we lost without Paul, or 2 others, had gone the other way we'd be 6-6?
I may not be a smart man, or know what a foul really is, but I know this team needs to try to do what it can with what it has.
#18
emir
11/18/09 01:12 AM
NBA should fine teams for tanking seriously it's embarassing
fans pay money to watch team compete for the win
not to watch one side let the other win so MAYBE in the future they might become better because they'll get lucky and sign the next chris paul
and if you support this tank idea then you might aswell quit watching basketball and come back when you see espn talkin about how chris paul won new orleans the championship on his own
#19
YoungFella
11/18/09 05:18 AM
You guys realize that if/when we dump "Soft Emeka" for an expiring our season is over anyway right? You guys realize that Jeff Bower is not a legit NBA coach right?
This season holds nothing for us. Were going to lose a ton of full season ticket holders next year no matter what - a top 3 pick in the draft would gain more back than a 9th place West finish.
As a full STH I am rooting for us to lose as of now - if we get back to .500 and "Soft Emeka" gets some testosterone/remains a Hornet maybe Ill reconsider. Personally I hope he's doing his pilates in NoCal this time next month.
#20
YoungFella
11/18/09 06:41 AM
The Hornets won't intentionally lose games. Neither I nor any reasonable fan really believes that. Bower's current personal career interests (saving his job by making the playoffs and advancing a round) do not match the Hornets' best interests (adding a young stud in the draft via a high lottery pick).
Tanking in the true sense of the word won't happen - I know that. What I am hoping for is that we play our youngsters and lose fun, competitive games. Games like last night. I challenge anybody to tell me that I'm not a "real fan" if I have already given up on the season and am rooting for losses. In fact, I'm such a "real fan" that I actually gave up on this season in February of 2009 - if you don't believe me than look at my past quotes. The ironic thing is that the quicker we suck and the harder we suck - the sooner we're likely to get better. We need to dump Emeka and/or West while we can get good value for them - either in expirings, younger guys, or draft picks (or a combo of all). If we keep this current team together we are likely doomed to lose CP3 and quite possibly the franchise. That's why I'm so worried about the conflicting interests of Bower v's the Hornets. If he had job security as a GM his interests would be in confluence with the franchise and we'd be more likely to do the right thing.
Here's why you want a top pick by the way: Data is a bit dated but still holds true today....
"So, between 1995 and 2004, 10 superstars were drafted with one of the first five picks, which represents 20% (10/50) of the total number of picks over that span. Compare that to the six superstars (7%) that were picked in the #6 to #14 range, and it works out to be about three times as likely that a team will draft a superstar if they are able to secure a top-five pick. That three-to-one ratio also holds true for the chances of drafting a star. Overall, a team has a 54% chance of drafting a star or superstar if they pick in the top five compared to just 17% if they draft later in the lottery."
#21
Niall Doherty
11/18/09 07:01 AM
Thanks for holding down the recap, Chip.
David West came up big for us last night. Best game I've seen him play this season. He was coming across the lane to double the post and working hard on the glass, especially down the stretch. I really needed to see that kind of effort from him.
Collison didn't once back down from Baron Davis. There was one defensive sequence in particular where Baron pulled out all his tricks to get by Collison on the perimeter, but the rookie stuck to him like glue and Baron ended up forcing and missing a tough jumper from the baseline.
The ball movement seemed very much improved. There where lots possessions where the Hornets used up 18+ seconds on the shot clock yet the ball hit the floor just two or three times. That made me happy. I just hope that continues against better opponents.
James Posey played terrible on both ends. The only thing he's been good at this season is taking the occasional charge. Other than that, he gets lost defensively whenever there's a hint of a screen, and he bricked some wide open jumpers last night. Oh, and he blew a wide open dunk.
www.ndoherty.com #22
mW
11/18/09 08:18 AM
I'll say it: Youngfella, you're not a "real fan." I am. So I will root for my team to win games. And yes. This squad can make the Playoffs. No fan 12 games in can even consider tanking let alone advocate it. I mean look around. So many teams are good and keep beating each other that no team is really out of it. Hornets included. Believe it.
www.hornetshype.com #23
corndeaux
11/18/09 08:18 AM
i get where you're coming from but hoping the team loses a month into the season is absurd. the hornets have a nice run in them once cp gets back. not winning a championship, but they can* get to about 45 wins. now if it gets closer to the all-star break and nothing has improved, then blow it up.
hornets are not dumping okafor any time soon. diogu is hurt for a while- possibly the season. does anyone want to see a marks/armstrong center rotation again?
@chipdouglas- bower could have unloaded devin brown this summer in the okafor deal.....
#24
berlinhornets
11/18/09 08:57 AM
man. I am so happy Scott is gone. I love the play of the rookies. That much learning and developing would never have been possible under Scott! I am not for tanking either. Cap relieve will come in two seasons at the latest. We dont wanna be the Knicks. They have wasted a decade now and wont be near winning a championship the next couple of seasons.
This Hornets team is fun to watch again. Lets enjoy it and root for wins.
I am just really sad for JuJu right now. I hope he can develope into a rotation player again. Because right now he is far away from being that.
#25
HollisBuckeye21
11/18/09 09:46 AM
Good job chip filling in. I missed the game but am glad we got the win. I think it's ridiculous to want this team to tank already. It's 12 games into the season. This isn't the NFL where a slow start is the end all. The Mavs last year started worse then this and still got to the playoffs.
First round picks are no guarantees. Greg Oden and Blake Griffin both miss the rookie season. Granted, they could step up later, Oden isn't terrible right now, but that slows the progress down.
Now, I don't remember what picks they were but how about the Hornets having two first round picks. Fans are excited for us to bring in some solid talent and really develop. Say hello to Cedric Simmons and Hilton Armstrong. We all know about Hilton and I don't know where Simmons is. Last I remember he was with the Kings.
This season can easily turn around. The team is developing and this CP3 injury could be the best thing really. These guys are learning where they fit. They are learning that they can really play. The confidence goes up when Collison or Thorton has a good game. This team I think will get hot right when CP3 returns to the court. It's just a matter of how will we hold up until then.
#26
420ftJesus
11/18/09 09:47 AM
I, too, feel for Julian. I'm not willing to write him off yet, but he needs to `break free' of whatever mental hang-up he has, assuming that's the issue.
If not, we can probably get someone who will produce more in the short run in trade while sending him to a place where a fresh start just may help him out.
OKC would be as close to a Kansas team as he could get, if that matters to his development, which it probably doesn't.
Someone has to have a tall guy they don't want . . . or a small forward . . .
The answer to the salary cap and personnel issues can probably both be solved with small role player moves rather than simplistic `superstar' moves.
Ariza, Fisher type guys; not slouches, not superstars (other than being Lakers).
Keeping trade bait healthy from when injuries mount. the Clippers are now down two guards and Blake Griffin. They could be interested in a guard, if someone had one to spare, even better one with experience with roster members, like Bop. Hmmm, was Mo Pete playing last night? Hmmm...
It's not a probable thing, but it's an example of how opportunities and moves can just pop up.
Whether the good thing happens, we'll see.
#27
Chip Douglas
11/18/09 09:49 AM
Thanks for the welcome, folks! If I sound negative, it's probably because I'm still rather skeptical about this whole Scott/Bower thing. I don't believe in tanking, but I do think building for the future should be the most important thing right now (giving the team's coaching limitations) ... and that means getting Thornton and Collison some major minutes to aid their development. Making something out of JuJu would be a nice bonus, but I'm not holding my breath at this point.
Also, Niall was right about West, he had a good game. I'm just a little uber-critical of the guy seeing as how he's supposed to be an All-Star and all.
#28
BringEmOut02
11/18/09 09:53 AM
YF,
Uh-uh man. Come on, we're what, 12 games in. Tanking anytime just isn't the answer. Should the Saints have moved their best players had they started 0-3, fired Payton and lost Brees for a week or two? I think not.
I've seen plenty of this sky-is-falling mentality over the years on local fansites/forums on various issues: losing streak, coach fired, player traded, team playing in Oklahoma, etc. One forum I even saw one very prominent "gentleman" member publicly post "Go Nugz" on a Valentine's Day in OKC when the Hornets wore red "OKC" jerseys for ONE SINGLE GAME. And he had the nerve to get all pissy when his fanhood was called into rightful question.
Bottom line, we're no Pollyannas here, but things are gonna get better when we bear down and stick with the team win or lose. Hornets will always be NOLA's "other" pro team but damned if we're not gonna be a STRONG second.
www.twitter.com/bringemout02 #29
BringEmOut02
11/18/09 09:58 AM
@HollisBuckeye
Simmons plays in the Greek League for one of the Athens teams - not Olympiakos but another, I forget which one off the top of my head.
www.twitter.com/bringemout02 #30
Mikey
11/18/09 10:23 AM
It saddens me to see how out-of-shape James Posey is at this point in the season. Yes I know he had a knee procedure in the offseason, but the Boston Celtics version of Posey would have dunked that ball on that baseline drive in the 4th quarter. Last night he could barely catch rim, and had to rely on David West to work the put-back. These fat contracts to aging wing players make it hard for me to sleep at night.
Here's what I'd like to see with Devin Brown. His 3-point shot is actually falling this season. Keep playing him for now, but try and get something for him by the trade deadline. You probably won't get anything more than a 2nd round pick, but thats better than nothing, and it saves you almost $1 million (closer to $2 million for luxury tax implications). I guaranee you some contender is going to need 3pt shooting depth at some point this season.
It's amazing what happens when an offense actually moves without the ball, and they actually move the ball around. The result, even Peja can score in the painted area. That made me smile. I know, its against the Clippers, but still.
#31
stormsurge
11/18/09 11:16 AM
Mikey, he showed huddle chasing the ball when it went out of bounds. I couldnt beleive it was him, hes been so slow and lethargic this season.
www.stormsurgephoto.com #32
ticktock6
11/18/09 11:42 AM
He got a standing O from the crowd for that. Haha. While I'm glad he still bodychecks guys sneakily and cheaply, and takes charges, we could REALLY use him in the corner actually hitting those threes. There was a stretch near the end of the game where it was so cringeworthy, we kept looking to Bower to please get him off the floor... but we had to sit through it a few more minutes before he was finally replaced with I think Peja.
hornetshype.com #33
otherMark
11/18/09 11:54 AM
I was impressed with the rookies, particularly the defensive stop by Collison that Niall mentioned. If we can hit outside jumpers like we did last night, we will have a lot of chances to win games like these. Especially if Pedrag and Posey can start shooting better.
Posey looks old and slow, like he has nothing to offer on either end. I suppose he can still take charges pretty well: the one "hustle" play where you are standing totally still.
Devin's tuck move drives me crazy, he usually doesn't even get a shot off, but I have to admit that he draws a foul every time.
I'm open to the idea that Bower/Floyd may be able to coach. This team does have a few strengths right now, and they seem prepared to employ strategies that use them. For instance, we can't really work the pick/roll without CP3, so instead we use drive-dish and perimeter passing which our young guards can do pretty well.
I like Okafor, he is a vacuum cleaner around the glass. His offensive repertoire is not as vast as we were led to believe.
I'm very happy with Songaila, except that he always shoots from just inside the 3.
I think DWest's I'm-angry-and-focused face just looks a lot like an I'm-pouty-and-dissatisfied face, so people often misinterpret his attitude. He was hustling his butt last night, and he and Okafor worked pretty well together down low.
The 300 level concession stands have made lids and straws available this season, which I appreciate. In exchange, they have taken away our ability to dispense condiments onto our own food, which I do not appreciate.
Rasual Butler looks way taller now that he's not playing for us.
#34
berlinhornets
11/18/09 12:20 PM
another trade idea. monta ellis wants out as it seems. what do think about him for mopete and james posey. problem of course is his lengthy contract, but he is still young. another point is that with the development of thornton a good starting sf might be even more imortant.
#35
Joe Gerrity
11/18/09 12:27 PM
othermark- Brown gets that call like 1/3 times. One time he gets a bad shot off and one time he just gets it stripped.
Also I just don't see Okafor being this "vacuum cleaner" in the paint. He's an above average rebounder, but rarely does he get rebounds that he shouldn't. Granted he doesn't lose the ones he should get, but that hardly makes him a vacuum. Don't forget that until last night the Bees had been outrebounded in every game except for one.
iI like Bower and Floyd about 20x as much as Scott. Why didn't the rookies see time? Why did he have Devin Brown starting and then inactive? You know he's way wrong one way or the other.
#36
otherMark
11/18/09 12:44 PM
@Joe I like Emeka's energy in the paint, and I think that getting all the rebounds that he's supposed to is not to be taken lightly! If a few more Hornets did that, we'd be in a lot better shape. I have a long-standing joke that Hilton Armstrong can't even palm the ball, which is why he mishandles so many passes and rebounds. Emeka locks his rebounds down.
I feel like I saw him take a few rebounds away from better positioned opponents last night, but I haven't seen enough games to really know what he does for the team.
#37
NOH_Domination
11/18/09 12:46 PM
Who thinks we probably should've drafted Thorton instead of Wright? Thorton was taken one spot behind Wright...
Similarly we probably should've taken Chase Buddinger instead of M. Thornton. Chase was taken one spot behind Thornton although with the cheap price of second round picks, we probably could've gotten them both. After all Detroit pretty much gave Chase away. Now Houston will reap all the benefits and we'll see him play 4 times a year. Oh well Thornton isn't bad for now... but then again Wright wasn't bad for awhile....
#38
NOH_Domination
11/18/09 12:51 PM
Oh yea..... Al Thorton scored 30 on us. Julian scored 2. Don't ever take role players on nat'l championship teams... The whole Florida repeat team sucks and so does all of KU's championship team (and I love Kansas). Anybody from the UNC team a few years back good? How many UNC players were taken in the lottery? How many are good? Marvin Williams, May?
#39
ticktock6
11/18/09 12:59 PM
Chase Budinger = 9.3 PPG in almost 19 minutes.
Marcus Thornton = 9.4 PPG in 14 and a half
Meh. I'll keep our kid.
hornetshype.com #40
downtowndave78
11/18/09 01:14 PM
Tanking, trading, and talking about absolute failure this early in the season is proposterous. No comment!
I was happy to see Wright but dispappointed in his play.
Peja seems to be getting a game back.
Devin and B Brown made some shots, but they also made many stupid turnovers. That will work against the Clippers but not many other teams.
I won't comment on the boards or the play in the paint until the bigs do it against a real team.
I LOVE the rookies and what they are bringing to the table. I have been an advocate to pacing their emergence into the team from the beginning, but Collison and Thornton have really impressed me. Hope they continue to grow. That alone, thus far, makes the Scott firing a success in my book.
I also loved some of the plays that were being run by the Hornets offense. Players were running, positioning, picking, and creating open looks and lanes. Such creativity can only result in a succesful future- especially under the direction of our man CP3.
This time without CP3 will allow the other players to gain an identity and sense of purpose that should help us in the future.
#41
NOH_Domination
11/18/09 03:05 PM
Chase shoots a much higher percentage than Thornton. I agree, right now I'll take either, but down the road, say next year and the year after, I'll take Chase. There's no reason we couldn't have gotten both though.
#42
LSUhornet17
11/18/09 03:55 PM
"Don't ever take role players on nat'l championship teams... The whole Florida repeat team sucks "
Um, Joakim Noah is leading the league in rebounding and is the biggest snub on the all-star ballot. Al Horford is a stud, and playing great on a good ATL team. Not sure who you're talking about. I hated those teams (and esp. Noah) b/c they always beat LSU while I was at school, but they had some talent that definitely transferred to the NBA.
#43
Chip Douglas
11/18/09 05:37 PM
I joked at one point that Collison was the most impressive player on the floor not named "Thornton". Al is a load, and it's ridiculous to me that the Clippers are wasting him right now ... of course that's why they're the Clippers.
I was surprised Marks didn't get more time last night, but it didn't end up being a big deal. Curious to see if he'll get more minutes going forward.
#44
Niall Doherty
11/18/09 06:02 PM
Regarding Marks, Bower mentioned after the game that he's been a little banged up, and that's been part of the reason why his playing time has been low.
www.ndoherty.com #45
Cait
11/18/09 06:12 PM
Al Thornton was a rock star at Florida State.
Speaking of which - Toney Douglas would be an awesome fit with the Hornets...to me, in my opinion. The Knicks landed a solid player with that kid.
www.thundersquee.com #46
YoungFella
11/18/09 10:00 PM
mW: That's your opinion I guess, but you're clearly not grasping the big picture here.
The way this team was crafted is seriously flawed and it's not viable either long term or short term. We should absolutely not hang on to guys like West and Okafor who will be too old to make a serious title push in 2 or 3 years when we're finally ready. We need to blow this team up as soon as possible to get CP3 playing with some young talented guys like Collison, Thornton, JuJu (in theory, not in reality), this year's picks, etc.
You guys can keep your heads buried in the sand but everybody who knows this team knows that this season is done. We're a joke around the league and the poisonous atmosphere that losers like Posey and JuJu impose on the lockerroom has killed this incarnation of the Hornets.
You guys hoping for an 8th seed and a 6-game loss to the Lakers in the 1st round aren't grasping the big picture. That's the last thing we want or need. Bower needs to get canned. Good thing there's absolutely no way we'll make the playoffs.
#47
YoungFella
11/18/09 10:11 PM
Basically we should basically do exactly what Seattle/OKC did 3 years ago. Dump our valuable old guys (David West, Okafor = Ray Allen, Rashard Lewis) and use that cap space / those picks to rebuild around CP3 who will still be early in his prime.
By the time Peja and Posey finally expire our young studs acquired through this year's lottery and trade pieces would be ready to run around CP3 and we'd have $25MM extra in cap space to add the final pieces.
Instead (nightmare scenario here) we're probably screwed because Bower will be desperately trying to win to save his own job - so we'll hang on to West, Okafor, and then CP3 will bolt.
#48
HornetSaint83
11/18/09 10:23 PM
Hey guys, HornetSaint83 checking in here. What's up? (ok i don't really give a bleep what's up).
Anyway,
In defense of YoungFella, basically everybody who knows the NBA on tigerdroppings and HornetsReport agrees with him. Honestly, I'm quite concerned where this franchise is heading. I'm more concerned with the long term prospects of winning rather than clinching a worthless 8th seed playoff spot and getting a crappy pick. In fact, the NBA should do away with the 7th and 8th seeds. They're really like giving a trophy to the slowest kid in a race so he doesn't feel bad. Something's wrong when more than half the league makes the playoffs.
Thanks,
Full Season Ticket Holder
#49
corndeaux
11/18/09 10:40 PM
do you even remember the 2007 draft that seems to be your blueprint for success? seattle had less than a 10% chance to win the lottery, got lucky and had the next league superstar fall into their lap. so the hornets should follow that model? that sounds bulletproof.
#50
ticktock6
11/18/09 11:16 PM
Three years ago? Seattle/OKC is still not good. You guys have got to be kidding. Chris Paul's contract is up by then.
hornetshype.com #51
ticktock6
11/18/09 11:48 PM
Oh, AND! The Sonics are no longer in Seattle. So actually the example you used as something the Hornets should do is, literally, the worst case scenario for us:
1) In 2-3 years when Chris Paul has a player option we are full of young guys and still suck.
2) The team has moved.
Not the best of examples. Anyone who really, truly wants to go to games and see losses can feel free to sit and be miserable. But most people have more common sense.
hornetshype.com #52
LSUhornet17
11/19/09 09:47 AM
Oh so we blow up the team and we can be the next Thunder. Sounds like a plan. Great, cuz a 35 win team with a bunch of youngsters is so much better than what we have now. That coupled with a move to the midwest and a new super generic name is exactly what I want to happen. Wake up.
By the way, the last team with a number 1 pick to make it to the finals was the Magic last year, who had the #1 in '04. The Cavs made it to the Finals in '07 after LeBron was picked in '03.
So, we can tank, pray we get the #1 pick (we won't), and then in 5 years maybe we can make the Finals. Or if we get super lucky we can get the next LeBron and make it in 4. Yeah. That sounds so much better than making the playoffs and competing year after year. Gotta love ignorance.
#53
YoungFella
11/19/09 09:56 AM
OKC is the most fun team in the league to watch and they're loaded for a 10-year Spurs like run.
The move from Seattle was political and had nothing to do with their brilliant rebuilding.
#54
corndeaux
11/19/09 10:48 AM
having superstar fall into your lap because of luck does not = "brilliant rebuilding." if all it takes to be brilliant is having a star fall into your lap then you should love our own jeff bower.
thunder are fun, but still a mess of a team. you've been reading too much freedarko.
#55
420ftJesus
11/19/09 03:41 PM
Something is wrong when more than half the league makes the playoffs, I agree. I don't see a system that is somehow less flawed, just differently, and this way gives more basketball, at least.
I'll take more basketball. Not only is it fun, but it gives tv money and ticket money to the teams. Playoff basketball is also generally thought to be a different brand of basketball. Getting time in the crucble can useful.
#56