For those of you still limber enough to play pick-up basketball, you will probably recognize a trend that has become the norm over these last few years. On the blacktop we call this trend Stacking. Stacking takes place when the best player on a losing team calls “last downs”- that is he forgoes his opportunity to play in upcoming games in order to become the GM of his own team so to speak. He then waits for subsequent losing teams to come off the court and cherry picks the elite players off those teams for his squad. This continues until he has assembled his five man “super team.”
This player has lost any motivation to overcome the obstacles associated with having inferior or average teammates and instead satisfies his ego by becoming a part of a winning team that forgoes the character building that comes with overcoming said obstacles. Does any of this sound familiar?
Many writers and former players are pointing to the clear differences between this generation of players and the players that were the face of the NBA just twenty or thirty years ago. They cite a lack of competitive nature and too much camaraderie with opposing players who are supposed to be viewed as the enemy. Many will say that this is why the NBA has become soft. AAU camps are partly to blame for this, but I believe the roots can be found on any local court where serious pick-up games are being played. It is part of the culture now, plain and simple.
This culture spilled over into the 2010 Free Agent Derby and left teams like Cleveland and Toronto a mere shell of their former selves. LeBron James looked at the NBA landscape and determined that it would simply be too much work to get Cleveland over the hump. A team that averaged over 63 wins the last two years was simply too far away, he thought, so he abandoned them and joined D Wade who was Stacking his team off on the side.
They justify their cowardess by saying that all the great ones had help. MJ had Scottie, Magic had Kareem and Worthy, and Bird had McHale and Parish. LeBron will tell you that it wasn’t his fault that Cleveland simply couldn’t get him the help he needed. He won’t talk about how he failed to lead his team to victory in multiple playoff series where Cleveland was the favorite. He won’t talk about all of the short term moves he forced upon Cleveland management, only to throw them under the bus for those same moves years later.
All he will say is that he wants to win, and now according to published reports, CP3 is saying the same things behind closed doors. He wants to force his way onto a stacked team because he wants to “win now.” Of course that wouldn’t be possible with a roster that is arguably better than the one that won 56 games in 07-08 with him playing at an elite level, would it?
This new breed can’t be blamed however- they’ve been doing it this way their whole life. How can they possibly know how much better it feels to overcome adversity when they have avoided it the majority of their lives on the basketball court? When their team fails, they immediately look outward and place the blame at the footsteps of others. Then they think back to times when they faced a similar crisis and try to remember how they solved it back then.
Stacking.
Like all trends, this one will someday be bucked. Kevin Durant, or someone like him, will do it the right way. They will run hard into those obstacles and barriers and push forward. They will focus on the change that must take place internally, not obsess about the external factors of which they have no control. They will persevere over one of these stacked teams, and they will gain a sea of fans in the process. Some of those fans will be the next generation and those kids will go to their local playground. After they lose they will hold their heads high and instead of calling last downs they will jump on the court at the next possible opportunity with a singular focus- to win regardless of circumstance.


73 articulate comments post your own
Gerry V
07/21/10 09:53 PM
Nice article.The players like Jordan and Magic got the rosters they wanted.Magic got a coach fired and was flanked by terrific talent.Players look to play with mates that help them win.Picture this. You save on the wear and tear with help. You can prolong your career and of course they have more fun.Just as we hunt for jobs that give us the bells and whistles or perks to create a better atmosphere for ourselves.
Players see its a " hire and fire world" Win and make money.I don't fault any player that joins ranks with other highly talented mates.Doesn't this display a good business sense? The Yankees come to mind.
Pro sports is what it is. Pay money and assemble talent.The toughest thing to do in pro sports is BUILDING & MAINTANING a roster. Cowards? No way.
Bird,Jordan,Magic all knew they needed help and they had it. When you are lucky enough to have agreat player on your roster diesn't it make good sense to assist him with players that will his skills to shine?
Doesn't it make sense since we know that teams sports require a collection of players?
The ball is shared.The game requires a variety of talent with different styles and positions.It adds to the beauty of the performance.
Regards,
Gerry V
#1
nikkoewan
07/21/10 09:58 PM
hello LFTH, first why did you change names?
2nd, im done with all this stuff. but nice analysis on why this stuff happens.
when i play tournaments, i always wanted to play against the top seed. the thirst to defeat a team better than you is more powerful than the need to play easy towards a win.. now miami can win all it wants, all of it will be recorded for naught...
and with the Magic comparisons? I'm pretty sure he had a hand on why Cooper and Scott became good players.
the problem with Lebron was that he wanted to win NOW. Cleveland, if they had just built up slowly(instead of trading veteran for veteran for veteran) instead of building, then personally, i think CLE would have been in a better place. Sigh what has the world come to?!
#2
420ftJesus
07/21/10 09:58 PM
This is a response to Miami? Or to CP3?
Or not a response?
I'm intrigued by Miami, but think they lack balance and will fail.
If Chris can somehow get a trade, we'll get what we get and that'll be it.
I don't see these two guys with fresh jobs *promotions!) and two owners in transition just coughing up an asset due to a tantrum. Even if he wants a trade, there's not guarantee he gets it, and far from it in my book.
But, if he gets it, we'll get something, and I'll be in my seats rooting for my team. Good luck, Chris, regardless of your wishes, and thanks for whatever it you had, or have, to give.
#3
nikkoewan
07/21/10 10:00 PM
but i can't fault the players because they do have a limited time frame.. the NBA should just reduce its teams to about 8. that way all of them will be superstacked teams..
#4
Michael McNamara
07/21/10 10:16 PM
A Response to Miami, CP3, and just the new generation as a whole. The new mantra seems to be that when "You fall off the horse, you just simply go out and find a better horse."
Dave Cowens was an NBA MVP in 1973 and that summer he drove a cab around Boston to supplement his NBA paycheck. Does that seem like a player that was coddled and given whatever he wanted? No, but this generation is given whatever they want from the second they show superior skills on the court and that leads to a sense of entitlement. Those who are entitled see overcoming obstacles as an unnecessary component of life. Instead, they use the capital they have (be it financial or social) to circumnavigate those obstacles.
This new trend is a byproduct of several factors, all of which have to do with players focusing their attention externally as opposed to internally.
#5
Mark
07/21/10 10:21 PM
It's intriguing how one action by James can escalade into a public outcry. Similar situation, I felt the KG+Jesus trades were shady and it evoked the same 'roll-my-eyes' reaction as this Miami Heat thing. Surprised nobody ever really brings that up.
I think we can all question the definition of sport and competition, but the new generation of athletes are far more business oriented ('I needed to feed my family' (c) Sprewell) and hailed as global celebrities (i.e. egotistical), so I don't expect any of them to have the same backbone as athletes of old. Case in point: imagine a modern commercial like 'I am not a role model' ad (c) Charles Barkley: Not. Gonna. Happen.
www.dogpile.com/ #6
Mark
07/21/10 10:25 PM
Michael: "sense of entitlement" is the perfect phrase for the situation. I love athletes and sports, but seriously. Athletes are, for the most part, people who can throw a ball well.
www.dogpile.com/ #7
420ftJesus
07/21/10 10:44 PM
I agree with what you are saying about this win first.
I'm all about winning. But, what is it you win when you win a game?
Games aren't about points. Games aren't about winning. If so, cheating wouldn't exist as a concept.
Games are wondrous things. Game theory is itself a beautiful and flexible area of mathematics. Games, at there best, are more than games.
However, winning a mere game, racking up the most points because points are something to be believed to have value outside the game is crazy.
If you want to win, go win. But what are you winning?
I'll beat the drum until the day I die, but look at the Saints. What made that kick make me cry? Why can't I watch replays of the Super Bowl without getting just as woozy as I was watching it from the upper deck?
I don't know. And I don't care, really.
But it's something, something very special.
LeBron chose winning over that, or at least another stab at winning.
Other people do all the time.
Madoff collected billions. Why? He didn't need them, so why take the risk? It's a mere game.
BP.
Corps of Engineers.
Apple.
Toyota.
AIG.
Fannie Mae.
How many times does exercising laser focus on a false bottom line cause so much trouble? BP's numbers didn't adequately assess the risk, so they appeared to have more profit by cutting corners than not, so they did, and they are taking a massive hit. False bottom line.
Over and over. Again and again.
I know why I'm in the game of life: my house, my girl, my dogs, my math, my friends, my freedom. Anything outside of that I don't care about. I need money to support those things, but collection of money because I can't analyze how much I need at the expense of those things I'm working for is just insane.
So, what are they really striving for (Bosh etc.)?
Probably just wins. Probably just wanting to feel big. But it'll all fade. The only thing you are left with is the choices you make, and when you make a choice based on bad assumptions or data, you are pretty likely going to mess it up.
Chris better be sure of leaving if he pops out with that. He'll lose something when he does, just like LeBron. Time will tell if he makes the right choice (should I stay or should I go), but if his momma raised him right, and she did, he'll judge that choice correctly.
Cold comfort that will be if we lose the hope he brings us, but hope springs eternal and we have other young bees just waiting to be the next Chris Pauls, just like everyone else does.
Go collect wins if they are important. I'll spend my time rooting for the guys who do things that matter.
For reference, my sports hero is Brett Lorenzo Favre. The dude just loves the game and is the greatest of all time (so far). He left Green Bay but was basically forced out. At any rate, I'm not a dance with who brung you guy. That dude plays his heart out and will be regarded as better than Montana and Brady in the end, even with 1 title.
How about Stockton? Someone want to tell me, or him, that no rings means he's somehow diminished? That's a narrow view.
Mere wins. Mere games.
That's not why I'm here, that's not why Brett is trying like hell everyday to come back and have to face the very people that probably ended his career, and that's not why Chris plays, I hope.
#8
youknowimright
07/21/10 11:03 PM
honestly, i dont really care about the mini all-star teams. just BUILD IT HERE!!!!!
Lets go get carmello anthony ASAP so that CP3 will be happy and the team will become a real contender.
#9
JCS
07/21/10 11:06 PM
This is not the 90's Mac. The Golden Era is over. Jordan has retired and so has all his rivals.
So the reality is, whether Lebron stayed or went he was going to get ridiculed, but the bottom line is he was a free agent.
lovethegame.tumblr.com #10
Caleb462
07/21/10 11:43 PM
"They justify their cowardess by saying that all the great ones had help. MJ had Scottie, Magic had Kareem and Worthy, and Bird had McHale and Parish."
Which is exactly right. The logic here is ridiculous... its okay to have great teammates, but don't actively seek them when you hit free agency even though having other elite players is whats necessary to win and winning a ring is viewed as the end all be all of you as a player by most fans.
That's the logic, and it makes zero sense. I hated the way Lebron went about his decision, but the decision itself? No problem. Would I have maybe respected it a bit more if he stayed in Cleveland and toughed it out? Sure. But calling it "cowardice" is extreme and overblown. Players are told to put winning above everything, to sacrifice for the team.. yet at the same time the idea that they have to be "the man" is drilled into their heads. Fans and media expect them to hold to these two ideals at the same time even though they are somewhat contradictory ideals. You add the pressure of having to win a ring to legitimize their achievements (a principle I wholeheartedly disagree with, but its the prevailing opinion), and it all adds up to unreasonable expectations. Yes, they are millionaire celebrity athletes. But they are also human beings.
As for Paul... we don't know what he is thinking. I'm skeptical of the reports myself. But if he truly does "want out" then I do indeed think he is being somewhat impatient and he needs to see how things play out in the next two years. My guess is he understands that as well as we do.
neworleansbasketball.blogspot.com #11
YoungFella
07/22/10 12:59 AM
This guys is taking Gerrity's place, right?
Best column I've read on here since Ron Hitley was around.
#12
DownUnder
07/22/10 04:24 AM
Again we just have to give Chris Paul the respect that he isn't getting from the media. He has done alot for this team and no one should undermine that archievement just because he may want to keep his options open. He is a grown man and he makes choices right for him. Like I said in my other comment give him a reason to stay here by staying loyal. Show that this team has a future with or without Chris, unlike the Cavs.
#13
TVA
07/22/10 06:45 AM
Takes more than a single player to win a championship. Lebron has basically every accolade except for those that you have to win a championship for and people talk the most trash about him because he has no rings. Best records in the league, scoring championships, All Star appearances, Rookie of the Year etc etc and the only thing folks have to say is "No Ring King" etc etc. Not noting that Kobe had Shaq, Horry and Fisher upon others for his first 3 and the Lakers is a franchise that will and can attract and pay talent. That's part winning pedigree and part having an owner that's willing to pay the luxury tax. Both of which come from having a lot of talent on the floor. Same with Magic, same with Larry and the same with any other team that has managed to win a championship. These teams have multiple Hall of Famers on their rosters. Lebron made those guys look great and when it came down to it they always expected him to pull them out of the fire. Mo was supposed to be the second scorer, then Antawn and neither could get it done when the Celtics or Magic were swarming Lebron. When the star gets taken out of commission or held to bad shots the rest of the team needs to step up and they were largely M.I.A. through all of those series. So he's in MIA now with guaranteed help and folks that are as competitive as he is and nearly as talented.
KD has a lot of young talent that once they coalesce will end up being one of those teams. The deal is that they are all so new nobody knows what they are going to be but they have and have shown potential. Same with Golden State once they learn how to play defense.
If he had been traded (not likely to happen) nobody would say a peep. It would have just been a coup by whatever team had picked him up. Well this is a player initiated trade just like CP3 is trying to get done. And since Melo hasn't signed that extension for all those millions it would seem he is looking to head back to NY himself.
You all want them to wait till they aren't sure if they have anything in the tank to go ring chasing to get one before they can't play anymore. They want to win more than that especially as most of them were on great teams before getting drafted which is why we pay them attention in the first place. They are used to playing with the best and now you put them with rag tag support. Lebron didn't win those St. Vincent games himself he had teammates that were pulling their weight especially in the clutch. I just don't buy that older players who won with Hall of Fame teammates have any room to talk about the newer generation. They just never had to think about it. A GM should overrule a superstar if they have a better idea of how to build a championship contender so all of this "They made short term moves to make James happy." No do what is necessary to win because that is all James really wants.
#14
LeoneL
07/22/10 08:30 AM
Off-topic but, you guys and gals heard of the latest rumor about Paul wanting out Nawlins?
It's on SLAM.
http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2010/07/report-chris-paul-wants-out-of-new-orleans-now/comment-page-1/#comment-1244580
www.bugshots.info/ #15
LeoneL
07/22/10 08:30 AM
Off-topic but, you guys and gals heard of the latest rumor about Paul wanting out Nawlins?
It's on SLAM.
http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2010/07/report-chris-paul-wants-out-of-new-orleans-now/comment-page-1/#comment-1244580
www.bugshots.info/ #16
byronscott4
07/22/10 08:34 AM
Here's the thing that sets Magic apart from Lebron and gives him the right to comment: he never left his team. Magic came to a team with Kareem and players like Worthy and Cooper were drafted, players like Scott and Mychal Thompson were traded for and they signed people like Rambis. Early in his career, Magic signed a 25 YEAR contract. He wasn't going any where so players knew that if they played for the Lakers, Magic would be there. Most importantly, the Lakers made some shrewd trades to get players and draft picks that worked out for them.
Larry Bird, pretty much the same thing. He stayed with Boston, they made some good trades (getting Parish and McHale for #1 overall pick) and signed guys like Walton.
Jordan took less money for most of his career so that the team could sign good players around him. He stayed with Chicago during the prime of his career.
Now, players don't want to wait. I can see it now, many young players are thinking they need to team up now to win because the Heat nucleus is young. It may be good for those teams who end up with the players but who wants a league where only a few teams have a legit chance to win it all?
#17
CP3 4 MVP!
07/22/10 09:08 AM
Okay. I don't know how you guys feel about this at this point, but I'm done with it all. Up until this offseason, Chris Paul has been a model franchise player (Some would say he served as a mold for the Durant-esque professionalism) but if any of this is true, I'm done with him. If Chris Paul really forces a trade and doesn't give the hornets, who have overhauled their whole front office to appease him, and who are a half-season away from having a max contract and a midlevel-range expiring, the chance to build (not buy) a sufficiently talented supporting cast around him (he did sign a contract), then I lose every bit of respect I've gained for my favorite player over the past 5 years. I cannot stand these heartless acts one bit. People direct me back to Kobe doing the same thing. I disagree. Kobe never wanted to hop on the spurs or the heat or the mavs when the lake-show were struggling. And remember he gave his team the chance to better themselves, which Cp3 apparently is not willing to do. If he really wants out, trade him and get some all-star value in return, but if and when that happens I root against him for the rest of his career. Don't tell me he just wants to win, because the hornets are maybe 2 trade deadline additions away from being a top 4 seed in the west. He wants to (allegedly) play with one of his buddies so he doesn't have to work as hard to earn himself a chip. Be a man, Be a professional, Honor your contract, and Grow Up!!!!
Sidenote: Mr. Demps. Please free Rudy Fernandez!!! If he isn't the perfect compliment to our current team, idk what is!!
#18
Mikey
07/22/10 09:30 AM
Hornets,
Don't let this player hold your team hostage. Don't be Cleveland, and bend over backward for your superstar player, only to be left out in the cold. The clock is ticking, and you have less than a year. I would say you have until the trade deadline next FEB. If you are really trying to put a winner on the floor, then do it. If you aren't serious about winning, and are simply trying to save some $$, then trade the guy. Don't forget, his clock is ticking too.
#19
Sosh
07/22/10 09:49 AM
"He (Lebron) won’t talk about how he failed to lead his team to victory in multiple playoff series where Cleveland was the favorite." I think this is really the key point that gets conveniently glossed over when people defend Lebron's decision to go to MIA. His team was upset by Orlando two years ago, and this past post-season he quit on the team. So while you can make the argument that Cleveland's management should have done more to get him help, he was still in position to win big and came up short. Personally I'm glad Lebron has come out and admitted he does not have what it takes to lead a team to a championship. He is content to play 2nd in command to Wade to get it done. This speaks much more to his personality versus other historical greats, then it does to some new era of "stacking" for success.
#20
420ftJesus
07/22/10 09:56 AM
I see the reports and I know what they say, but I just don't think he's going anywhere. Not before the season, at least.
What reason do the Hornets have to trade him now as opposed to later?
This is all hot right now, but cooler heads will prevail.
Besides, Demps probably doesn't know where the trade forms are yet.
#21
Sosh
07/22/10 09:59 AM
As for CP3, I think he is a little envious of what is going on in Miami, and that frustration is showing a little bit. All he can really do now is use his soundbites to put pressure on the Hornets management to give him some help. But he is also a smart enough guy to know what financial state the team is in, and therefore he has to be realistic. We also have the lockout coming next year, which makes his opt-out prospects pretty dicey.
That being said, I for one think there is enough talent on the team to compete this coming season. I think if the team is healthy (obviously a big IF with these guys), one more servicable big man could be all that is needed.
#22
420ftJesus
07/22/10 10:05 AM
Yup.
#23
TheKeyMaster
07/22/10 10:24 AM
Since Cp3 holds no cards in this situation i.e. he doesn't have a no trade clause, i say trade him to the twolves for some of their talent and let him suck it up in frigid cold. He knew what he was getting himself into when he went and signed with lebron's agency so he deserves all the vitriolic comments he is getting now. and why does he think the knicks are going to contend this year? they haven't made the playoffs since i was an 8th grader, they have had terrible management...etc. Last year the hornets would've probably made the playoffs had he been healthy but he wasn't and the team was still better than the knicks.
Even if he ends up not being traded he has lost a lot of respect from a life long hornets fan, and i will no longer cheer for him but only for the hornets. This apparent trade demand has shown him for who he really is and personifies the current generation of superstar athletes. However what all these athletes fail to realize is that they are puppets for the public's amusement much like actors. if the public holds no interest in these actors or athletes than they don't have a job. so these "entertainers" should be smart not to bite the hand that feeds them.
The only way i hope Cp3 ever succeeds in an NBA uniform is in a hornet's uniform, so if he isn't playing for us i hope he fails to ever make the playoffs again, serves his whining a$$ right.
#24
Sosh
07/22/10 10:25 AM
correction to my last post, Paul cannot opt for another 2 years, still doesn't give him much leverage to justify his demands....
#25
SaveYourBoredom
07/22/10 11:55 AM
I'm out. I'm done with Chris Paul. Ugh. Let's give him what he wants and trade him... to the Timberwolves. Who wants a Paul-for-Luke Ridnour/Darko Milicic trade? Who cares what we get, as long as Paul is cold and miserable.
#26
SaveYourBoredom
07/22/10 11:56 AM
Oh, I see somebody beat me to that joke. Sorry, TheKeyM, I should've read first.
#27
BeesGivingEffort
07/22/10 12:21 PM
I love how Lebron James is such a massive whiny b**** that he actually turned one of the best personalities in the NBA into a whiny b****. I wish CP3 was the CP3 of old before he got corrupted by the Big 3. But, alas, how do you reverse what's been done? We now have the Chris Paul that wants to essentially cheat his way to a title.
Where does he think he is going to go this season and "win"?
The Knicks are nowhere near championship level. The A'mare thing might have actually downgraded that team. The dude can't play defense and doesn't rebound. They got rid of a big man who could do both for someone who can score occasionally when he feels like it and is also a massive injury risk year in year out.
I'm hoping we are not going to give Chris Paul away to the Lakers or the Nuggets. He will have the opportunity to sit on the sideline and cry before that happens. That will pretty much clinch our prospects of competing in the West and would be a giant slap in the face to our fans to see our star PG whine his way out of our city and see him on a potential championship team. Furthermore, I don't want to see him on the Lakers. If it comes down to Kobe vs Ledwayne Bosh, I want Kobe to completely and utterly destroy Lebron's image.
If you want to trade Chris Paul and he demands out, I agree with the previous 2 posters. Ship him somewhere where they can afford to give us major talent back in return and a place where he will not be happy or immediately in a position to compete.
Chris Paul was my favorite player of all-time tied with Scottie Pippen, but I can't support a crybaby. I'll be in my seats next year regardless but I hope someone slaps some sense into CP3 and tells him what a little b**** he's being.
#28
420ftJesus
07/22/10 12:25 PM
Are we also going to post some thanks-for-not-leaving stuff and then link back to the ones that are appropriate later?
#29
TheKeyMaster
07/22/10 12:33 PM
@420ftJesus we shouldn't have to grovel to keep our star player. the way i see it he owes us more than we owe him. we have supported him and helped him become the star he is today. without his fans he would be another NBA player but since his fans have set him on a pedestal he feels entitled to a lot more than he is. With his regards to wanting only to "win" it seems more like he wants to play with his friends than actually win anything. Plus the way he is talking is a complete slap in the face to the rest of his teammates, he is pretty much telling them that they aren't good enough to play with him.
#30
420ftJesus
07/22/10 12:49 PM
We shouldn't have to grovel. No one has asked us to.
From the story linked below:
"Paul and his representatives are expected to meet with the Hornets within the next week, the sources said. If they are not presented with realistic scenarios that convince Paul that New Orleans can build a contender very quickly, he'll ask the club to begin speaking to the Knicks, Magic, Mavericks and Trail Blazers about possible trades."
No quotes from Paul. All from sources who can't be named for whatever reasons: maybe they are confidants, maybe they are just morons.
But, this doesn't sound like groveling. This sounds like sitting down after some big changes and seeing if they are on the right path. I don't blame anyone for having a backup plan, or holding the boss' feet to the fire (however much it sucks for us) but I don't have a problem with that.
I'll not grovel for him and no one should. I just want to see how it plays out. Apparently even the sources say that the Hornets have a chance to convince Paul. Maybe it's a formality and he can't be convinced; so be it. But not groveling.
As far as owing: The Hornets owe me. I'm a season ticket holder. I'm a fan. My jersey doesn't have any player's name on it, and this is why. Same for my Saints jersey.
We need to focus on our team and not a player, and then maybe WE can take the f@#$ing NBA back from the morons in Miami with Cavaliers LeBron jerseys jumping up and down when he declared he'll walk away from them 10 times more easily then he did from his home, and all the losers in our Arena who cheer for Kobe beating us rather than enjoying the show and being thankful that the Hornets give us those chances to see Kobe doing the Kobe thing (I'm thinking of nailing that 3 as the shot clock expired, over a tenacious Posey to put them up 6 with a minute to go rather than have us with the ball and a chance to tie or win).
I want the NBA back. I want my team.
No groveling. Quite the contrary.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5401230
#31
HiMyNameisSteven
07/22/10 01:02 PM
The issue about trading chris to a bad team is that i cannot see a bad team like the wolves or whoever wanting to make the trade since they know chris will leave in FA the next year anyway.
No i do not want to see the hornets trade him to any of the teams he asks for uz if he goes there we will regret it when we see that team winning a championship sooner than us but i do think it be very hard for us to trade him to a bad team when they will basically be renting him for a year or 2 to get ticket sales and merchandise sales up only for them to wave him goodbye.
Anycase we cant just dump him alone we need to give up okafor with it to get rid of that salary and get a nice young center back (LOPEZ, brook, not robin he sucks) and a wing player and of course picks. Still love getting granger and hibbert with other pieces.
#32
420ftJesus
07/22/10 01:05 PM
As long as we don't end up with Rudy Fernandez. I hate him. This is not a professional estimatation of his talent.
He is my NBA Rex Grossman.
Vile little creature, he is.
#33
Michael McNamara
07/22/10 01:26 PM
I agree that we shouldn't rush to judgement and I think we should also acknowledge that CP3 has every right to want to win. However, it is not like the cubbard is bare here and he is stuck with a roster that can't be upgraded. Seriously, if management got bold and made moves for say Iggy and Gortat around the trade deadline and only had to give up expirings or exemptions- how many stars outside of Miami would have a better short term and long term supporting cast than CP3?
But if they are planning on playing the "health card" and/or only signing marginal players like Luthur Head- then I agree with CP3 wanting to leave and at least give himself a chance. But if this is about "building a brand" or going to a bigger market or stacking, then he isn't the guy I thought he was anyway and I would be down with testing the market.
What would I want in return? Package would have to look something like this:
Gortat, Sefolosha, Ibaka, and Gerald Wallace.
Essentially it would have to involve multiple teams but that would be the bare minimum I would be satisfied with. (They would also have to take Posey). Maybe Orlando moves Jameer for Wallace and swings something to OKC for those two players- whatever. Not my concern. Bottom line is that if you want him that is what it will take- you figure it out along with World Wide Wes and whatever other cronies you got behind the scenes.
Collison/FA
MT5/Sefolosha
Wallace/Pondexter
West/Ibaka/Brackins
Okafor/Gortat/Gray
Plus expirings in JuJu, Peja, and Songalia and tons of flexibility and youth- I'll take it and wish CP3 good luck as he gets beat down by the Heat out East.
#34
Alex
07/22/10 01:53 PM
@michaelmcnamara
Haha, that trade idea is ridiculous. If that's the only type of trade that would appease you, prepare to be vastly disappointed. I doubt we get an All-Star back...I'm expecting something like: Paul, Posey to Houston for Brooks, Ariza, Jordan Hill, Battier expiring, and the Knicks pick next year.
#35
QueenBee
07/22/10 02:15 PM
Well now. We've finally gotten rid of that terrible 'scouting department'. If you'd like to call them that. The Bass' are gone bye-bye.
#36
Vernon
07/22/10 02:22 PM
I was just thinking about players i would want on the hornets and besides and All Star SF like Granger (i reckon Q-Pon can be the defensive wing player so no need for someone like Sefolosha), the only place i really really want to upgrade is behind the PF/C - basically i really want a good defensive player who can play with either Okafor or West (i want both as hornets) - I want Varejao. Does anyone else want this to happen or forsee any trade we could swing to get him?
#37
JCS
07/22/10 02:23 PM
Some of you guys are getting a little too froggy. There is no need to call someone a bytch or a coward, unless you want to live up to the stereotypes of small market fans and take things personally. Seriously guys, what's next? Are you going to start writing in ALL CAPS? Are you going to burn your own clothes to stick it to these millionaire athletes? Please say no. It is not that serious, it is just a game.
The fact of the matter is Bowser and his Goombas effed up this team's coaching staff, chemistry, and cash flow, which in turn left a bitter taste in CP's mouth. So if CP doesn't think Monty and Demps can pick up the pieces, then so be it. Maybe he knows something that we don't know. One way or the other, he is a free agent.
He. Is. A. Free. Agent.
lovethegame.tumblr.com #38
QueenBee
07/22/10 02:23 PM
Any of you guys checking out Honeybee Finals tonight at Generation Hall?
#39
Vernon
07/22/10 02:30 PM
sorry for the double post but maybe Varejao - Williams and Gibson for Collison Songaila and Stojakovic.
gets rid of most (bar jamison and hickson) of Clevelands long contracts so they can rebuild at will which is what they need to do. Also gives them a massively talented pg in return and gives the hornets 2 combo guards to play behind MT5 and CP3. Also Gibsons last year is non guaranteed - good trade chip and Mo williams contract decreases.maybe we could chuck in some other stuff like 2nd rounders and cash to sweeten the deal.
I dont think its too farfetched but then again i am wearing rose tinted goggles.
#40
QueenBee
07/22/10 02:33 PM
New Orleans, you don't have to trade Chris Paul.
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/07/new-orleans-you-dont-have-to-trade-chris-paul.php
#41
420ftJesus
07/22/10 02:39 PM
He has some say, maybe, but he's far from free.
Reggie pulled this stuff pre-draft: he's here.
#42
Mark G.
07/22/10 02:39 PM
I think that if we give up CP3 we need to get rid of Okafor and Posey as well. tell me what you guys think of this trade (just to cheer you guys up if anything).
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=29j5ve2
We will get rid of the only two long contracts that we have get Vince's expiring (I think) and Brandon Bass back. We will also get J. Nelson and D. Orton who we send to the Pacers-who are looking for a young PG-along with Juju, for Granger (I'm dreaming I know, but all of this is to depressing to stay awake) and R. Hibbert. Pick up an aging PG (looking at you AI) to spell Collison and maybe an aging center (Shaq). Both can be had for cheap. Then we look like a contender. Solves all our problems and is way better than everything else I hear.
The front office shouldn't just give him away for nothing. He is the best PG in the NBA, and we should be compensated like it.
Collison/AI/Thornton
VC/Thornton
Granger/Pondexer/Stojakovic(who can be traded later)
West/Bass/Brakins/Songaila(also traded later)
Hibbert/Gray
Do I need to wake up? What do you guys think?
#43
QueenBee
07/22/10 02:44 PM
Good post JCS. And people please, do not be SHEEP.
#44
420ftJesus
07/22/10 02:49 PM
If for some crazy reason we agreed to trade Chris when he has almost no leverage, shedding Okafor (unless he's performing at value and it happens during the season) is a requirement. Requiring someone to take an expiring deal when they are getting Chris... that just seems to genial. We gotta get stuff to match salaries maybe, but other than that: gut them like fish.
#45
Mikey
07/22/10 03:12 PM
I proposed this scenario a few weeks ago, and it's doable money-wise. If we can work it out, Orlando would probably bite:
ORL gets: Chris Paul & James Posey
NOH gets: Marcin Gortat, Mikael Petrus, Jameer Nelson and ORL's 2013 1st round pick
Personally I think this is a win-win-win.
Win for Chris Paul: he gets his bonafide superstar teammate, and a shot to compete in the same division with D-Wade and the boys.
Win for the Hornets: The Bees get the frontline help and solid perimeter defense they desperately need, all while commiting time to develop a young/talented PG (with less injury issues). Lets face it, if the Hornets could rebound the ball even adequately last season, they would have made the playoffs with CP on the bench with his bo-bo knee and bo-bo finger. The Hornets also get a servicable back up PG in Nelson. Think of Jameer Nelson as Derek Fisher lite. They also save themselves about $3million, meaning they would have room to find a nice complementary player for the MLE.
Win for the Magic: Duh! They get arguably the best in the game at his position. Chris is the field-general that ORL is lacking to win a title, and is the perfect compliment to Dwight Howard. Also, the Magic would be real title contenders, meaning Posey will actually play hard.
#46
Mark G.
07/22/10 03:13 PM
I just thought of something: If the Hornets trade CP3 then they should call ESPN and tell them that they want to hold an one hour press conference to tell the world where they are trading him to. All the money received will go to help with the clean up in the gulf. The show could be called "The Destination". Weber would go on set and he would be the only one that knows. *I can't stop laughing right now* The build up, the excitement, everyone would wanna know.
Do this just to stick it to LMRM, or whatever.
#47
Mikey
07/22/10 03:22 PM
That would be awesome... I'm all for it!
#48
ticktock6
07/22/10 03:34 PM
That comment is easily the best thing I will read all day. I know it's only 3:30 but I already know.
hahahaha
hornetshype.com #49
QueenBee
07/22/10 03:44 PM
I know a lot of people are mad with him but don’t send terrible things to his twitter right now. If he leaves, THEN trash the h*ll out of him on twitter but until we hear more from him, no need to help push him out the door.
#50
ticktock6
07/22/10 03:56 PM
He follows me on Twitter. I do feel sort of guilty about some of the stuff I've retweeted. But not THAT guilty. Let's not forget these guys comb through hate all day, every day.
"OMGZZZZ @oneandonlycp3 SUCKS DERON PWNSSS U U DEUTCHE!"
I imagine his @ reply feed pretty much always looks like that. Haha.
hornetshype.com #51
QueenBee
07/22/10 04:10 PM
^^ LOL ticktock6!
#52
420ftJesus
07/22/10 04:16 PM
ok, the destination is great.
i was laughing in my meeting in which i shouldn't've been reading anyway. karma.
Mark G is my hero of the day.
#53
MaxALM
07/22/10 04:44 PM
this is exactly what i was afraid of when lebron bolted. CP3 demanding a trade. well, CP3, I've got news for you. If you go to the Knicks, you WON'T win. You'll instantly get to play for one of the worst teams in the past decade, which just shed David Lee for a $100 million Stoudemire, who plays when he feels like it. Except for the defense and rebounding. He never does that. Oh and the injuries. Even when he has an excellent PG to set him up (Nash), he only produces adequately. That is their best player right now. It'll be you and him. Arguably their second best player right now is Anthony Randolph--who is also a PF.
So unless you get traded to Orlando to compete with the Heat (and even that won't be enough to beat the Superfriends), you're going to be worse off than you are now, which if you think about it, really isn't that bleak if you look at what the team is capable of doing beyond the next couple of months. The Hornets are better off. New coach, new GM, new owner eventually. All of whom have personality and a good will. New talent available when we dump Peja's sorry corpse. The Knicks? Really? I would like to think you are better than that, Paul. But it is your choice, of course.
#54
QueenBee
07/22/10 04:51 PM
@MaxALM- I just heard Mark Jackson's voice when you said ....'you are better than that'. LOL!
#55
BeesGivingEffort
07/22/10 05:02 PM
You are being completely blind if you do not hate Lebron James for what he is doing to this sport and our team. He is not simply content with destroying his own small market basketball team but also desires to destroy other small market teams. Sorry, I'll call him a b**** all I want. Don't get offended. I don't aim it at you. Lebron James is the worst thing to happen to basketball in a long time and we are just barely starting to see the effects of his actions.
#56
QueenBee
07/22/10 05:04 PM
@BeesGivingE-I was telling a friend of mine that this guy hasn't won anything and yet you'd think he was a multi-championship winner. This is what happens when the league markets players instead of teams.
#57
JCS
07/22/10 05:07 PM
Damn yo. You're acting like he sold crack to kids. Anyway, please excuse my typo of free agent. Chris Paul is not a free agent. He's just free to express his opinions.
For the Haters:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxJNyHrAVIo
lovethegame.tumblr.com #58
BeesGivingEffort
07/22/10 05:10 PM
And, no, I am not just referring to the decision. I am referring to his pop-star mentality. His self-entitlement since he came into the league even though he hasn't even come close to winning a title. It has always been about Lebron James. Lebron James is not an ambassador of the NBA. He is god's gift to the NBA. How he blinds these people. I don't know. Lebron James is everything the game of basketball does not need right now summed up into one freakishly-athletic, little boy who cares only about himself. If CP3 wants to be Lebron James I will gladly watch him walk away because I do not want to support that massive ego.
#59
QueenBee
07/22/10 05:12 PM
"He is god's gift to the NBA."
He THINKS he's God's gift to the NBA. Haaha.
#60
BeesGivingEffort
07/22/10 05:15 PM
Lebron James would sell crack to his kids and your kids and every other youth in the United States of America if it meant him becoming the biggest global icon ever.
Sorry that I am passionate about this but I really enjoy the sport of basketball and I completely abhor the direction the game has been taking this offseason. This is gross. If I wanted to see this amount of pre-madonna whining and non-competitiveness I would watch Baseball and root for the Yankees.
Will I burn my CP3 jersey? No. But we have a right to dislike people who are destroying things that we genuinely enjoy. The NBA is one of those things for me. I have watched it since I was 6 years old and do not want to see one massively large ego destroy the competitive balance of the sport.
#61
BeesGivingEffort
07/22/10 05:18 PM
And that massively sized ego is not just content with being with the Heat. He obviously cares nothing for the sport. He would prefer his grandiose vision of the NBA come to pass and he will stop at nothing to obtain it. I'm just disappointed that CP3 lets this idiot persuade him.
#62
420ftJesus
07/22/10 05:19 PM
Chris has the right to ask for anything in the world for whatever reason he wants, just like everyone else. And I think that's a good point to raise, JCS. He can express his wishes and we can like it or not. That's not a reason to beat him up, in my opinion, and I think we agree on that.
I just want to also toss in there that the Hornets do have a say in the matter, which is a point that is getting overlooked to a degree.
All we have to do his keep his mind open first, then perform. Two steps. And he doesn't have a lot of say in the first one, really. He could affect the second, but that'll be on tv so that will mitigate any tanking.
Now, if he just can't lead in pressure situations like LeBron James . . . then who wants him?
#63
JCS
07/22/10 05:20 PM
Good to see I'm not the only one who drinks Turbo Dog before I get on here. You guys are fired up!
lovethegame.tumblr.com #64
BeesGivingEffort
07/22/10 05:31 PM
What seems to be forgotten in all this is that there were those individual talents that were able to compete with these dynasties in the 80s and 90s that gave MJ and Magic a run for their money. Barkley and the Suns. Isiah and the Pistons. Clyde and the Blazers. Malone/Stockton and the Suns. Ewing and the Knicks. The hodgepodge that was the old Cavaliers with Price and Ello. Yes, they also had good supporting casts but they were the engine that kept the vehicle going. If you put all of these superstars on two teams in the league, you will no longer have that individual brilliance that makes the sport entertaining. Kobe only has so many years left in him and then it will be a two-horse race, because that one individual talent that can win championships without surrounding himself with megastars will be gone. Who, then, will be left to pick up that slack? Playoff races are FUN. Playoff series are FUN. Two teams running rampant through the league? Not so fun.
#65
BeesGivingEffort
07/22/10 05:33 PM
haha right on cue and I'm definately not a huge FoxNews fan.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/Chris-Paul-LeBron-James-turning-NBA-into-league-of-quitters
#66
QueenBee
07/22/10 05:37 PM
Hmmm, maybe someone should tweet that to CP3. Wowwwww.
#67
BeesGivingEffort
07/22/10 05:40 PM
haha yay for mainstream media fighting back
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Does-Chris-Paul-want-out-of-New-Orleans-;_ylt=AmGkSL8A9eLfYH_cpDVZeIG8vLYF?urn=nba-257453
#68
JCS
07/22/10 05:51 PM
"Lebron James would sell crack to his kids and your kids and every other youth in the United States of America if it meant him becoming the biggest global icon ever. "
----------------------------------------------
Wow
lovethegame.tumblr.com #69
Rob
07/22/10 06:26 PM
I applaud this article. Absolutely right. "Stacking" is basically players saying they don't care about fans, they only care about winning.
www.forumblueandgold.com #70
420ftJesus
07/22/10 07:47 PM
I just asked my girlfriend about stacking our relationship with a couple of her friends. She wouldn't talk to me when I regained consciousness, but she didn't say no, so that's a yes (see media logic).
Now I just need two of her friends who are free agents. Or maybe some of you guys have a girlfriend that wants to join a super relationship.
Have your girl call my girl . . . we'll do lunch.
Don't worry about existing `marriages' or `making things work'. I'll let you know what we work out when it's all said and done and you can watch us on the internet or tv if you like, but you'll need cable.
And remember, this all may sound really bad, but it's not . . . right? It's ok, trust me.
#71
QueenBee
07/22/10 08:46 PM
LOL 420ftJesus!
#72
420ftJesus
07/22/10 11:28 PM
After going out for dinner tonight, I realize the my girlfriend, while nice in lots of ways, just isn't the catch that the waitress we had was. The waitress just has this big ol' market, you know what I mean . . . and a couple of sweet endorsements . . . much bigger endorsements that my girlfriend. I mean, her market is fine, but she got subsidized.
So, I've demanded a trade. The waitress comes with a whole staff for my super relationship, but I'm open to a trade. So, there it is. I'm out there. Come get me.
#73