The inescapable truth for this off-season is that Chris Paul trade rumors will fly until he is moved or the Hornets take the floor in October for their opening game. That, of course, will be frustrating for many Hornets fans, and depressing for others. For a while, I've been sitting in the 'depressing' camp, but now I'm past that, and instead of dwelling on Paul leaving, I decided to take advantage of the ESPN TrueHoop Network and solicit the network's Team Bloggers for their best offers for Paul.
A good half of them responded, and here are the offers, ranked and grouped in logical fashion, and accompanied by my own mockery analysis. One blogger, who opens up our bidding, didn't even go after Paul, but instead tried to give Paul to someone else and steal West in the process.
Group 1: Hahahaha . *gasp* . . hee hee . . . wait, you're serious?
Offer #13 Brendan Jackson of Celtics Hub
| Team | Offers | Receives |
| Boston Celtics | Rasheed Wallace and no one I've ever heard of | David West. Oh - and Paul goes to Indiana for Danny Granger. |
Offer #12 John Krolik of Cavs: the Blog
| Team | Offer | Receive |
| Cleveland Cavaliers | $11.5 Million Trade Exception, JJ Hickson, Mo Williams, Leon Powe, Danny Green | Chris Paul, Emeka Okafor |
Group 2: And that helps the Hornets rebuild . . . how?
Offer #11 Rob Mahoney of The Two Man Game
| Team | Offer | Receive |
| Dallas Mavericks | Tyson Chandler, $3 million cash, 2 2nd round picks | Emeka Okafor |
| Dallas Mavericks | Caron Butler, JJ Barea, Deshawn Stevenson, Rodrigue Beaubois, 3 million cash, 2 1st rounders | Paul and Pose |
The fact this has to be two trades tells you everything you need to know about it: They have to break it into two trades so they can give the Hornets enough cash to hide the fact that other than one undersized, unproven PG, none of the players being given to the Hornets are likely to be there a year later, and that the draft picks will be nearly worthless. For more on Rob's offer and hopes for landing CP3, see his post about Castles on a Cloud.
Offer #10 Michael Schwartz of ValleyoftheSuns
| Team | Offer | Receive |
| Phoenix Suns | Jason Richardson, Goran Dragic, Jared Dudley, Earl Clark, Taylor Griffin, 2 1st round picks | Paul and Okafor |
I like Richardson, but he's an old two guard who won't be around long. Dragic and Dudley would be nice off the bench, but the Hornets would end up with no center and no way to get one. Two crappy draft picks and the 6th and 7th men in a rotation just don't do it for me. For more on the Valley of the Suns offer, here's Michael's 'defense' of it.
Group 3: At least there's some young talent in these offers.
Offer #9 Tim Donohue of Eight Points, Nine Seconds
| Team | Offer | Receive |
| Indiana Pacers | TJ Ford, Troy Murphy, Brandon Rush/Paul George, Tyler Hansbrough, 2 1st rounders | Paul and Okafor |
Paul George and Hansbrough could possibly be rotation players, but I can't like this offer. I know Indiana needs to keep players like Hibbert and Rush to have a chance to win with Paul, and while the picks might actually be better than most - there's just not enough young talent here.
Offer #8 Mike Kurylo of KnickerBlogger
| Team | Offer | Receive |
| New York Knicks | Eddy Curry, Anthony Randolph, Ronny Turiaf, Wilson Chandler, Bill Walker, Toney Douglas | Paul and Okafor |
Offer #7 Brett Hainline of Queen City Hoops
| Team | Offer | Receive |
| Charlotte Bobcats | Dampier(immediately waivable), Nazr Mohammed, Gerald Wallace, Gerald Henderson, Derrick Brown | Paul, Okafor and Posey |
Offer #6 Henry Abbott of Truehoop
| Team | Offer | Receive |
| Portland Trailblazers | Greg Oden, Joel Przybilla, Andre Miller, Rudy Fernandez, Jerryd Bayless | Paul, Okafor and . . . Thornton |
Offer #5 Mike Kurylo of KnickerBlogger
| Team | Offer | Receive |
| New York Knicks | Eddy Curry, Anthony Randolph, Ronny Turiaf, Kelenna Azubuike, Toney Douglas | Paul and Okafor |
Group 4: Okay, at least we won't just say no and hang up.
Offer #4 Rahat Huq of Red94
| Team | Offer | Receive |
| Houston Rockets | Aaron Brooks, Jordan Hill, Shane Battier, Jared Jeffries, Dave Andersen, Mike Harris, Alexander Johnson, rights to swap draft picks with the New York Knicks in 2011 (top 1 protected), and the New York Knicks' 2012 draft pick (top 5 protected) | Paul and Okafor |
Andersen, Harris and Johnson are only partially guaranteed and would give a small bit of immediate cap relief. The Knick picks are nice. Aaron Brooks is an amazingly efficient scorer. That said, the Knicks picks were better this year than they will be going forward, and only netted a #9. Two mid-round picks aren't enough to make me overlook the fact that Jordan Hill, Shane Battier and whatever the Hornets flip Brooks for isn't much of a haul for Paul and Okafor.
Offer #3 Tim Varner of 48 Minutes of Hell
| Team | Offer | Receive |
| San Antonio Spurs | Tony Parker(to be flipped elsewhere), Tiago Splitter, Antonio McDyess, 2 1st rounders | Paul and Okafor |
Tiago Splitter will be good, and Parker would be good for something in a flip to another team. McDyess and the 1st rounders won't be worth much. Still, I don't make a trade like this until I know exactly what I'm getting for Parker, who has made noise about leaving San Antonio after this year anyways. You could probably get most of the good stuff offered in number 5 for Parker, but I can't be sure of that.
Offer #2 Tom Sunnergren of Philadunkia
| Team | Offer | Receive |
| Philadelphia 76ers | Jrue Holiday, Andre Igoudala, Mareese Speights, Jason Kapono, Thaddeus Young | Paul and Okafor |
Group 5: Let's talk Business
Offer #1A Eddy Rivera of Magic Basketball
| Team | Offer | Receive |
| Orlando Magic | Vince Carter(semi-expiring contract in 2012, $4 million guaranteed if waived before June 30, 2011), Jameer Nelson, Marcin Gortat, Brandon Bass/Ryan Anderson, $3 million cash, 2 1st rounders | Paul, Okafor and Posey |
Gortat and Anderson really shore up the Hornets frontcourt, and the cash and picks are okay. Still, the most important part of this trade would be what the Hornets could get by flipping Vince Carter and Jameer Nelson - and flip them they should. The have expirings in Peja and Songaila and Wright before getting Carter - so let them cut your salary burden by expiring and move these pieces for something else. (More on that at the end of this post.) If the Hornets can't get much in a flip of those two guys, then go with the next offer. [For more about this offer from the Magic's side of things, take a look at Eddy's post explaining it.]
Offer #1B Dan Feldman of PistonPowered
| Team | Offer | Receive |
| Detroit Pistons | Greg Monroe, Austin Daye, Rodney Stuckey, Tayshaun Prince, Chris Wilcox, 2 1st round picks, 2011 Nugget 2nd rounder | Paul and Okafor |
Bonus Group: Multi-team deals
I do have one massive trade proposed by Jeremy Wagner of the Roundball Mining Company. You can see it here in the ESPN trade machine. I didn't include it in the ranking since it was a 4-team deal. It does have a bit to commend it by providing point guards to Charlotte and Indiana - both of which need them badly. It also gives the Hornets a good starting center - though JR Smith would have to be flipped. If about three first round draft picks were included and directed the Hornets way, it could be pretty solid. Still I prefer the next one, which combines several of the above proposals.
This trade is mine. I started with the offer from Orlando, and then tried to flip Vince Carter and Jameer Nelson for something else. Quickly, I found nice homes for them in Philly and Indiana. Here is the trade in the ESPN Trade Machine. The trade would also include Orlando sending a 1st round pick to New Orleans and another to Indiana.
- Philly gets to dump Brand's contract, which they were willing to give up the 2nd pick of the draft to let go. They replace him with Okafor, who fills a hole in the middle and is paid less per year. Andre Igoudala is moved for a Vince's almost-expiring contract - and Vince and his range is a much better wingman for the shooting-challenged Evan Turner.
- Indiana gets a solid point guard in Jameer Nelson, which they have a desperate need for. They send out a promising big man in Hibbert to get him, but they pick up a draft pick and shed Dahntay Jones and spare part Foster in the deal. They also get Julian Wright . . . to make salaries match.
- Orlando gets Chris Paul, and believe it or not, Posey isn't bad on this team, operating as a stretch four to spell Rashard Lewis- which is the one thing he can still do well. Elton Brand also serves as a solid backup center. A very expensive one, but Paul and Howard will be crushing, particularly when surrounded by shooters like Redick, Lewis, Pietrus, Posey and Richardson.
- Finally, New Orleans rolls with a great new crop of young players, some of whom are bound to develop nicely. Their depth chart would be:
C: Gortat/Hibbert/Gray/Foster
PF: West/Anderson/Brackins/Songaila
SF: Igoudala/Stojakovic/Pondexter
SG: Jones/Thornton/Pondexter
PG: Collison/Thornton
The team can even still explore trading expirings at the trading dealine too, since they'll still be armed with the expiring contracts of Stojakovic, Foster and Songaila, worth about $25 million. Or they can sit on it, and use that money to re-sign Thornton, West and a nice mid-level guy next year.
So what offers did you like? Any of them?


60 remarkable comments post your own
QueenBee
07/28/10 12:01 AM
Inescapable is right. Jeez. I think I'm on Chris Paul overload right now. LOL! I think I might lay low for a while and come back when something 'new' happens.
#1
QueenBee
07/28/10 12:02 AM
Nice write up by the way. You really put a lot of time and thought into these articles.
#2
Hornet
07/28/10 12:09 AM
I kind of like the Orlando trade, but how would Jameer fit with playing with DC? Who starts?
I really like your trade but my biggest problem with it is Indiana. They're really high on Hibbert, so why would they give him, and Foster's expiring for a slightly above average point guard? Also their frontcourt considering they'd lose both Hibbert AND Foster.
Phillly is alright but like you said, we'd have no real center.
The rest of the offers aren't interesting or they're laughable.
#3
Hornet
07/28/10 12:12 AM
But yes, this was a really nice article. Thanks for writing it.
#4
magicfaninTN
07/28/10 12:38 AM
I think Orlando takes Okafor before Brand.
#5
MagicianInOz
07/28/10 01:22 AM
I've seen this one posted about a fair bit and I like it:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2ddr4f8
Indy and Orlando both give NO a 1st round pick.
#6
Michael McNamara
07/28/10 06:15 AM
I was really looking forward to this article and it did not disappoint at all. It is kind of depressing when you look at the offers, however. If we were to take any of them we would be locked into mediocrity forever unless somehow Yao or Melo decided to come here in the weak 2011 free agent class.
I forgot who said it, but in the NBA 5 nickels don't equal a quarter and I don't even think 3 or 4 dimes equal a quarter. A super mega-star, top 5-7 player is a necessary piece and we just won't get another one unless we tank for a season and get lucky in the draft. With good enough talent like DC and MT5 plus guys we get in these trades, we can't be Timberwolves bad, so we would be stuck in the late lottery forever.
I go all out and try to build him the team he wants- I move DC if I have to for a nice piece and I just go for it. If I succeed, maybe Paul is a Hornet for life. If I fail and he leaves in 2012, then at least I tried and maybe I can get an exception and picks in a sign and trade and then I stink for 3 years while building like OKC did.
2 years is a ton of time, I'm taking the chance. What's the point of being mediocre?
#7
boris
07/28/10 06:52 AM
You do realise that Okafor's contract is what consigns the hornets to mediocrity for the next four years, right? All your comments on the trades would be correct to me if he made seven million next year and 10 mil in the final year. But any trade with EO in it is basically asking a team to take a 5 million hit each year for the next four years in order to sign CP3. Sure, GMs will do it, but it does mean that they are also probably going to think they could use that five mil themselves and are doing the hornets a favour for that reason.
You should ask what your fellow bloggers would give for Paul straight up. That would be a more interesting discussion!
#8
Brett
07/28/10 07:38 AM
Ryan - I didn't include any picks in the offer just because the soonest the Bobcats could give on is 2014 - they traded this years and owe one to the Bulls for Tyrus Thomas. With the every other year stipulation on trading first rounders, I did not think it would add much value to throw in 2014 and 2016 picks. If that moves the Cats up the list though, please consider them offered - the Bobcats have not shown any hesitation in including draft picks in deals and I do not see them starting when bidding for CP3.
www.queencityhoops.com #9
Ethan
07/28/10 07:52 AM
I think that a good trade for the Hornets and all other teams involved would be this:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=28ygatg
Paul & Okafor to Orlando- Orlando gets Chris Paul and yes while they couldn't play Okafor and Howard at the same time, he could give them some decent expensive backup minutes at the 4 & 5 and also be some kind of injury insurance, I guess.
Nelson & Bass to Charlotte- Charlotte gets the PG they desperately need and though I coud be wrong, I've always seen Nelson as at least adaquate defensively. I also think he and Larry Brown could work well together. Also, I think Brandon Bass would likely be able to get more playing time in Charlotte and could do well under Larry Brown as an energy guy/banger.
Carter & Dampier to New Orleans- New Orleans gets Carter who I guess is somewhat of a marquee name but as mentioned above he's also very valuable for his buyout option next year for $4M, and Dampier's contract gives them huge salary relief once he's released. In some other versions of this deal I've also thrown in Gerald Henderson & Ryan Anderson to the Hornets and Julian Wright to the Bobcats so the Hornets get some more young, cheap talent, but that trade would have to wait until September 15th to be made because of the restrictions on trading Eric Dampier. That deal woud look like this. http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5649086
I like most of the deals up there and while the Pistons offer is the most intriguing I might also want to demand Jerebko in addition to everyone else because I really like him, an his deal is small enough that it still works just to be added in.
What do you guys think of this trade I proposed?
#10
SilentQ
07/28/10 08:13 AM
Moving Paul to Charlotte in the deal proposed above only leaves us w/ one PG on the roster, not to mention the lack of young potential Ryan mentions. Without throwing in any draft picks, the Bobcats offer would move into "Let's Talk Business" if it included DJ Augustin instead of Brown. I know that ups the incoming salaries by about $2M, but we have plenty of trade exception to cover that difference. I also realize that Charlotte might not be keen to part ways with DJ Augustin but, on the other hand, you (hypothetically) just got Chris Paul.
Also, FWIW, I think the transaction would have to be broken into two separate trades because Dampier can't be moved with another player for a couple of months since Charlotte acquired him in a trade and they're over the cap. So, your two trades would be (1) Augustin, Mohammed, Henderson, Wallace for Paul and Poz and (2) Dampier for Okafor. I can't get the trade machine working on ESPN.com this morning*, but I'm pretty sure both those trades work if done separately.
(*I'm can only assume it's been overwhelmed by Ken Berger making thousands of different trade proposals to email to Leon Rose)
#11
corndeaux
07/28/10 08:20 AM
Nice work by all the writers. Remarkable no one threw in a crazy Kahn trade just for fun.
From a Hornets perspective I want two things if Paul must be traded:
1) Get rid of the Okafor and Posey contracts. Don't care how many teams need to be involved, but if you want to rebuild you don't need old James Posey around. Obviously easier said than done, but this is the NBA. Where stupefying deals happen.
2) Do not take back Vince Carter- unless there is a deal to move him immediately. This is selfish, because I simply couldn't watch him play all season in a Hornets uniform.
#12
Ethan
07/28/10 08:30 AM
Hey Silent- I'm not sure which deal you're referring to that sends Paul to Charlotte, I checked out both the blog post itself and the comment thread and haven't seen one to that effect. If you're looking at the one I made, it's sending Paul to Orlando, but still even if it's not my deal that you're talking about I'm still curious to know which one you do mean.
Thanks
#13
corndeaux
07/28/10 08:30 AM
Well I forgot that Kahn has stacked his roster with rookies or overpaid, underwhelming veterans. Salaries would never match...sigh...
#14
Ethan
07/28/10 08:32 AM
MAJOR MAJOR RETRACTION on my last comment I just wasn't paying enough attention. My bad.
#15
SilentQ
07/28/10 08:45 AM
No problem. I just had to scroll up after I read your first commentto make sure I hadn't misread it because it would have been entirely possible that I was still fixated on this Hornets/Bobcats deal I was toying around with in the Trade Machine earlier this week (for the record, that would have been Wallace/Augustin/Stephen Jackson for Paul/Poz, with a side of Dampier for Okafor).
In hindsight, I should have just referred to it as "Trade Proposal #7," what on account of Ryan went through the trouble of numbering the trade proposals he received.
#16
elenoff
07/28/10 09:04 AM
Silent- I'm curious what you'd think as a Charlotte fan of the deal I proposed. Would you be good with getting Nelson & Bass for Damp?
#17
kingraleck
07/28/10 09:06 AM
Seems as if the Paul trade is inevitable. I think that a trade before the season is going to help the team long term. We may have the Baron Davis debacle on our hands if we keep CP3 for 2 years and he sees no immediate changes. Unless we are able to trade Peja in the near future, it seems as if Paul will be the first to go.
#18
Jay
07/28/10 09:17 AM
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2bxhpfc
#19
SilentQ
07/28/10 09:44 AM
Sorry, didn't mean to give the impression I'm a Charlotte fan. I'm a Hornets fan - born/raised/lived in NOLA for 32 years until recently relocating to Miami for the Mrs.'s job (no, she is not represented by LRMR). The "us" I referred to as being left with only one PG was the Hornets, as we'd only have DC on the roster after moving Paul.
I just became fixated on that trade because I was trying to find a way to get depth at PG, a swing man, and unload Okafor's contract in one trade. Charlotte had Augustin, Jackson, and the incredible waivable Dampier contract.
For the record, though, if I were a Bobcats fan I'd be quite pleased with turning Dampier's contract into Jameer Nelson and Brandon Bass.
#20
adzsmrlondonbee
07/28/10 10:03 AM
Personally i really like the pistons trade the young pieces we'd get in return would give us a very bright future....not that i think this trade could ever happen! The most realistic deal would be with orlando although quite clearly a 3rd team would have to be involved for okafor (probably kahns t-wolves lol)....Gortat would be a clear upgrade at the C, and with this (somehow) being his 1st starting gig, he'll want to prove just how good he can be, because lets face it, last year he'd have started on any other team in the league, just not the magic...as mentioned we'd then have to move nelson because essentially this is now Dc's team...the only negative would be having to take on vince carter if a 3rd team can not be found for okafor :S
#21
Atuck
07/28/10 10:28 AM
the trade above (jay) makes no sense. thunder have no incentive to trade for okafor, boston has no incentive to trade rondo, who is their future, indiana has no incentive to take on posey's contract for maynor, who is unproven, just to get rid of dunleavy, who can be somewhat serviceable.
#22
Ryan Schwan
07/28/10 10:37 AM
@Hornet - Indiana still has Troy Murphy at Center. Matt Moore of HP suggested sending Okafor to Indy and Murphy to Philly instead, but I'm not sure if Indy would want the length of Okafor's contract.
@Boris - yes I know this, but if the Hornets are starting over, Okafor needs to go - and his contract can be easily swallowed up by Paul's talent. I also don't think the offers would improve much if Okafor wasn't involved. A team is only going to be willing to give up so much - and Paul already takes them to about their limit. Not to include the fact, some of these teams would see Okafor as an asset.
@Ethan - that's the nuclear option. I don't want to dump Paul and Okafor and get no young talent at all, especially considering the picks will end up being late 1st rounders at best. The Hornets need to get something young and interesting to start the rebuilding.
@SilentQ - I'm not a huge fan of Augustin, actually. Including him would probably bump the Charlotte offer a few spots, but that's about it for me.
www.hornets247.com #23
Mike
07/28/10 10:50 AM
What about a simple trade with Portland. Brandon Roy and Jerrod Bayless for CP and Marcus Thornton.
Seems like both teams with in this scenario.
#24
andrew macaluso
07/28/10 10:54 AM
How could you not add the Denver Nuggets?
Read my article: http://theswamp51.wordpress.com/2010/07/25/chris-paul-needs-to-add-the-denver-nuggets-to-his-list-of-teams-that-he-wants-to-be-traded-to/
theswamp51.wordpress.com #25
JP
07/28/10 10:59 AM
A few of these trades are crossed off because they don't net the Hornets a center. So what? If you trade Paul away, you're rebuilding. You many not get a center right away. You laughed off the Granger trade, when that was the one that netted you the best player (other than Paul) in this entire post -- and he'd be a great fit alongside Collison/Thornton. Yeah, you lose West, but he's getting older and is probably gone anyway after the season. At least you'd have a reasonably young All-Star to add to your diminutive yet talented backcourt.
As for Orlando's #1A, you maybe overestimating what you can get for Vince Carter in a flip. If someone is looking to dump a big salary, you're probably not going to want to take his contract on.
And your favorite trade, the one where Philly trades Brand and Iggy for Vince and Okafor -- why in the world would they do that? Okafor is actually owed more money than Brand (over four years instead of three), so it's essentially Iggy for a washed up Carter.
What if the Knicks included both Gallinari & Randolph?
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2btomk6
(FYI, I'm not a Knicks fan. At all. But I think that trade gives the Hornets what they need. Young talent and cap relief. I'm sure NY would add a first rounder or two to sweeten the deal.)
www.scoresreport.com #26
razzajoe
07/28/10 11:44 AM
Here's a three-teamer Golden State-New Orleans-Portland trade where CP3 heads to the bay area: http://games.espn.g o.com/nba/tradeMachi ne?tradeId=2fa93pz
#27
razzajoe
07/28/10 11:45 AM
Apologies for the double but the link didn't work above: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2fa93pz
#28
nikkoewan
07/28/10 11:59 AM
for the sake of the journal, if Paul gets traded, i want Okafor, Posey. you might want to include West(if he wants to, he can stay for the same contract if he really wants to re-sign and retire as a Hornet).. I want picks, young talent and EC. hard to ask.. HAHA
#29
ed
07/28/10 12:01 PM
love the 4 way trade.
the way i look at it, there are only a handful of teams with the goods to make a Chris Paul trade:
indy: granger/hibbert with expirings (t.j. and foster) and jones for okafor/paul
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2af7h8n
orlando (as stated before)
philly: iggy, speights, young, and expiring (kapono) for paul/okafor
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2fcf8l9
my fav- Sacramento: expiring (dalembert), for paul, and in a seperate deal okafor for udrih/landry with either Caspi or Thompson, whichever it takes to make the deal work
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=28rfj65
Memphis: Mayo/Thabeet and expiring (Randolph) for Paul/Okafor
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2ansfco
NY: randolph/azuibike/turiaf and either gallinari or chandler with expiring (curry) for paul/okafor
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=27yscq6
#30
SilentQ
07/28/10 12:14 PM
@Ryan - I absolutely see your point about Augustin. What made it a more valuable deal for me wasn't so much that it netted us DJ Augustin, but that it brought back some depth at the point. Moving Paul and not bringing back a backup PG to play behind Collison seems short-sighted. Considering the number of games we were without our starting PG last season, we were very lucky to have a true PG behind Chris Paul on the depth chart in Collison.
Personally, I'm lukewarm to the notion of Thornton behind Collison on the depth chart at PG. He's not a point guard. He's a scorer, and using him at the point really isn't the best use of his skills. Also, if (God forbid) Collison misses extended time with an injury, I think moving Thornton out of position as an every-day starting PG would be asking a bit much.
#31
Harry
07/28/10 01:06 PM
Warriors can put a good package.
Monta+AB+Expiry+future1st rd for CPaul+Emeka
#32
schwabbies
07/28/10 01:37 PM
I still think we should keep him, but the only trade I would consider is with Portland:
Portland Gets Paul, Okafor, Posey. New Orleans gets Oden, Miller, Camby, Batum, Fernandez.
Hornets start: Miller, Fernandez, Batum, West, Oden
Hornets Majority of Minutes: Collison, Thorton, Batum, West, Oden
Camby, Peja, Songalia, Gray, Wright round out the rotation in order of minutes.
Blazers start: Paul, Roy, Babitt, Aldridge, Okafor
Matthews, Pryzbilla, Blayless rotation
#33
MaxALM
07/28/10 02:44 PM
Regarding the Detroit Pistons scenario --- absolutely not. No thanks. Never....and no.
The only one of those I like is the 76ers trade. They know whats up. Screw Orlando. I would throw up underneath my shirt if I had to see Vince Carter and Jameer Nelson chuck up 3s all game on our team. And Ryan Andersen. We don't need a stretch 4 who stretches more than West. Did anyone watch Orlando vs. Celtics this past playoff season? Nelson was lucky to have made half of those shots.
But if Paul HAD to be traded, then yes please to Philly. Speights can be a stud. He's not any less proven than everyone's beloved Aaron Gray (??). Speights has potential, some of which he has shown. Gray has no potential.
#34
MaxALM
07/28/10 02:48 PM
and Thaddeus Young hasn't been used to the best of his talents on that team. He'd jump over Superdome if he were a starter/6th man on our team.
#35
Andrzej
07/28/10 02:48 PM
Portland giving up Oden, Camby, Batum and Miller in the same time? That's a joke. Trading both Oden and Batum together is already very hard to swallow.
#36
420ftJesus
07/28/10 02:53 PM
What's funnier than us trading Paul for anyone not named LeBron James, Chris Bosh, Dwhatever Wade?
In fact, that may be the move in a year . . . Bosh, Ilg, a guard, and some trash for Paul and Okafor . . . What other moves can Miami POSSBILY make?
It all depends on how the experiment goes.
#37
wtfdaemon
07/28/10 04:30 PM
What about this?
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2dfmdvz
GSW trades:
Andris Biedrins
Monta Ellis
Brandan Wright
Vladimir Radmanovic (6.3 million expiring contract)
1st round picks in 2011 and 2012
NO trades:
Chris Paul
Emeka Okafor
GSW can provide a solid center at a reasonable price, a 25+ PPG scoring guard that shoots around 50% (even if undersized) with a decent contract, a young PF still with a lot of upside potential to be a starter/rotation player, and a nice fat expiring contract for some salary cap flexibility. Add in a couple of first-round picks, and I think this package tops any others listed.
#38
JCS
07/28/10 04:36 PM
Excellent post Yoda. Trading CP or West is not something I want to do, but if meant saving the galaxy from the Evil Empire, then I'd go with one of the following:
Offer #9 Tim Donohue of Eight Points, Nine Seconds
Offer #2 Tom Sunnergren of Philadunkia
Offer #1A Eddy Rivera of Magic Basketball
Sidenote - how does Curry make Aaron Gray look Svelte?
lovethegame.tumblr.com #39
JCS
07/28/10 04:38 PM
...Aaron Gray makes Oliver Miller look svelte
lovethegame.tumblr.com #40
pad300
07/28/10 04:47 PM
Merge 3 and 5... One of Parker's FA destinations would be the Knicks, and it gets Paul his contender:
SAS out - Parker, McDyess, James Anderson, 2011 1st, 2013 1st
SAS in - Paul, Turiaf, Bill Walker
NYK out - Curry, Turiaf, Walker, Randolph, Azabuike
NYK in - Parker, Okafor
NOH out - Paul, Okafor
NOH In - Curry, Randolph, Azabuike, McDyess, James Anderson, 2011 1st (SAS), 2013 1st (SAS)
Why for NYK - They don't have enough assets to get Paul straight up - they have no 1st rounders to trade. But moving Eddy Curry (junk expiring), Turiaf (Expiring backup center), Azabuike (expiring backup SF), and Gallinari (decent Prospect) for Parker and Okafor, 2 high level starters is a acceptable deal (and they can very likely resign Parker- big Market, no cares about lux tax, able to offer extension under current CBA, should be contender...).
Why for NOH - They move the discontented Paul, the long term contract of Okafor which they want to dump if they move Paul for expirings, 2 good prospects and 2 1st rounders. Note that the 2013 1st is particularly valuable - TD may have retired, Manu will be OLD (36?), and given contender status will be gone at that point, Paul may have left as an FA. (If they are forced to move Paul, that is about as good as they will get.)
Why for SAS - They get Paul...
#41
Mark
07/28/10 05:27 PM
I like this post. But, as evident from this and previous comments, you cannot trade an all-star and hope to receive an all-star. It just sounds like we'd trade a top talent in the league and get a hodgepodge of players with a cumulative talent below CP.
Oh well, such is business.
www.dogpile.com/ #42
Hogey
07/28/10 06:09 PM
I actually think the best trade for Paul would be to send him to the team that should have drafted him - Atlanta.
Paul and Okafor for:
Al Horford
Jamal Crawford ($10m expiring)
Jeff Teague
Mike Bibby (2 yrs, $5.5m per)
2 first rounders
From Atlanta's perspective, they should do anything to have Chris Paul throwing lobs to Josh Smith. From NO's perspective, I like the talent, the only issue is the lack of immediate salary relief.
#43
JCS
07/28/10 06:26 PM
@Hogey
Why would ATL want to give up Horford and the 6th man of the year for a point guard?
lovethegame.tumblr.com #44
Hornet
07/28/10 06:45 PM
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=278rg5h
Was fooling around on 2k10 and got this to work. Orlando also gives 2 first rounders to Indiana.
Doubt it'd work in real life but eh, worked on 2k :p
#45
kzoz21
07/28/10 08:22 PM
Man I traded Bosh for Durant straight up then Budinger for someone good(I forget who). 2k10 is dumb. No way does OKC give up Durant for anything. And really I took Bosh from Toronto for West and MoPete.
#46
Hornet
07/28/10 08:45 PM
Yeah 2k is pretty crazy lol.
In that same season, I was able to trade Vince for Joe Johnson, then traded Joe Johnson to Toronto for Chris Bosh. Then I traded D West for Calderon and what turned out to be a lottery pick.
Line up ended up being - DC, MT, Granger, Bosh, Gortat.
#47
bigindian15
07/28/10 08:54 PM
Someone (I think John Hollinger) made a really good point that no one is talking about:
Expiring contracts are worth almost nothing this year because 1) there are a butt load of trade exceptions out there from all the free agent signings, and those are immediate relief, and 2) there's probably gonna be a lockout next year
So I dunno if we can flip Peja or whoever's expiring at the deadline
#48
Juge
07/28/10 08:57 PM
am I the only one who is keeping hope Paul won't go anywhere?
#49
Hornet
07/28/10 09:33 PM
I am too, but it's fun to throw trades around, and you never know what's going to happen. If the Hornets start off really bad, I'm expecting to hear a bunch of trade rumors.
#50
Robin
07/29/10 02:26 AM
I agree with Michael about these trades locking us into mediocrity. That's the worst outcome. If we're going to trade Chris Paul (which we should avoid), we have to commit to rebuilding fully.
And why wouldn't we when DC and Thornton give us a great head start in that effort? Those guys promise a bright future without having the experience to kill our lottery chances next year. There's no reason we can't get a few more guys like that in a trade for Chris Paul. In fact, that's how we're likely to get the most value for him since any team trading for Paul needs to keep their proven talent to play alongside him.
Any deal is likely to be a 3-teamer. But as far as straight 2-teamers go I think Memphis, surprisingly, is our best partner. They have the fat expiring contract of Zach Randolph, and a whole lineup worth of young prospects to offer in exchange for our costliest guys (including Paul). We could probably get all of: Mike Conley (who doubles as a decent-sized expiring contract), Xavier Henry, Sam Young, Darrell Arthur, and Hasheem Thabeet. These guys will probably not all pan out, but getting all 5 gives us more rolls of the dice.
We would trade them Paul, Okafor, and David West or Posey (depending on negotiations), leaving them with plenty of talent to meet Paul's criteria:
Paul
OJ Mayo/Tony Allen
Rudy Gay
Okafor/West or Posey
Marc Gasol
That's probably the #2 team in the West. Needs a bit more depth, but veterans will likely come along at some point. Getting a top 5/6 like that is the hard part. And this looks like a good fitting group to me. (Not that any of you guys should care, but it goes into making the trade viable.)
Opening things up to 3-team trades, New York or New Jersey can offer solid young talent, but they both also probably have to filter their starting PG's through a 3rd team like the Pacers. Ex: http://bit.ly/bRpdZA (Or the Hornets could send him along in a separate trade.) And NY has to wait until December to trade Felton: http://bit.ly/9SD7aD That 3rd team, especially Indiana, might want more than just one solid PG for any of their precious cap space/young talent. So you might have to throw West in (which shouldn't hurt from a rebuilding standpoint). NJ: http://bit.ly/cNC4jR NY: http://bit.ly/aVVEFD
Given Paul's preference for Orlando, I also like something along these lines : http://bit.ly/9xaiDp or http://bit.ly/dgCw7A And the incentive for Indiana is clear, especially in that first one.
#51
Robin
07/29/10 02:32 AM
Sorry for the craziness at the end of that. Let's see if this cleans it up:
Opening things up to 3-team trades, New York or New Jersey can offer solid young talent, but they both also probably have to filter their starting PG's through a 3rd team like the Pacers. Ex: http://bit.ly/bRpdZA
(Or the Hornets could send him along in a separate trade.) And NY has to wait until December to trade Felton: http://bit.ly/9SD7aD
That 3rd team, especially Indiana, might want more than just one solid PG for any of their precious cap space/young talent. So you might have to throw West in (which shouldn't hurt from a rebuilding standpoint).
NJ: http://bit.ly/cNC4jR
NY: http://bit.ly/aVVEFD
Given Paul's preference for Orlando, I also like something along these lines:
http://bit.ly/9xaiDp
or http://bit.ly/dgCw7A
I like that the incentive for Indiana is clear, especially in that first one. The Hornets get all the young prospects and exp contracts of the three teams, and the other two divide up the good players.
#52
Robin
07/29/10 02:37 AM
Damn, somehow I screwed up the trades in the 2nd and last link. I think you guys get the idea, though.
#53
Michael McNamara
07/29/10 08:32 AM
Just curious- Does anyone agree with the overall premise that you need a top 5-7 mega star super player to really be a threat to win it all this day in the NBA? I'm not saying that is ALL you need, but I am asking if we can at least agree that it is one necessary piece of the puzzle.
Give that- doesn't it seem like really there are only two choices- go for it with CP3 or build a team so bad that assures we get top 3-5 picks for the next two or three years a la OKC?
I know with these suggested trades we can be Utah Jazz good for a long period of time, but not Championship good, right? I mean we can propose all these trades with young talent coming back and salary coming off the books so we can overspend it on some average player- but really all that will do is put us in a position that the Milwaukee Bucks are now. Nice little team, but would anybody put $5,000 of their own money up even if I gave you 50-1 odds that they win a title in the next five years?
Last point- if Cleveland came to you for advice right now, would you tell them to use their exemption on someone like Luol Deng and go out and sign T-Mac and trade for Okafor, etc. so they can be a marginal playoff team or would you convince them to dump everyone but JJ Hickson and just be horrible for the next 2-3 years?
Personally, I think a top 5 guy is a necessary piece in order to win or compete for a title and we already have one. You gotta go all in. If we lose him for nothing, then we are better off being a horrible team and trying to land another one in the draft than we would be having Collison, MT5, Gallinari, Randolph, etc leading us to 38-44 wins every year and being stuck in the middle.
#54
SilentQ
07/29/10 09:17 AM
@McNamara - Yes. I absolutely agree with that school of thought. It is EXTREMELY difficult to win a title without one of the top five guys in the league. The only team I can come up with in the current era to win a title without one is the '03-'04 Pistons and, while they may not have had a top 5 guy, it started all-star caliber players at every position (in fact, I think all five of them were on the Eastern Conference all-star team the following season). So, I guess the exception to rule is that you can win a title without a top-five guy, but you'll need to start five all stars to do it.
#55
corndeaux
07/29/10 09:30 AM
Mike- Agreed that you need a top 5 guy to win a title. I don't think they should move Paul unless he made it clear he wants out- which I doubt he did.
And you're right, there is no such thing as equal value for Paul. But a good trade should do two things for the Hornets- first clear all the onerous contracts (Okafor, Posey, maybe even West). Second, get a young guy like Favors who has the potential to become an All NBA player.
That's just as good as tanking for top picks, gives you a young nucleus (don't forget DC and MT) to build around, and still probably lands you in the latter half of the lottery- with a chance to move up assuming the Hornets get draft picks in the Paul trade.
#56
Robin
07/29/10 03:07 PM
Michael: I agree with your argument. But I don't see the lineup in your example - Collison, Thornton, Gallinari, Randolph - getting near 38 wins. Maybe I just have less faith in young players. Unless one of those guys ends up being the superstar we need, I don't see an all-youth team like that being any good until a couple more years at least. They may diminish our chances for the 1st pick, but they don't threaten our lottery status.
At some point you have to roll the dice on someone. (Even if that's with a top 3 pick with good odds, you're still rolling the dice). I think better to do it with a handful of young players with solid all-star potential, and draft in the 5-12 range, than blowing up the team for nothing and hoping for a draft miracle.
And once you get that top-level player, then the clock really starts ticking on filling out the core, because usually he's good enough alone to take you out of the lottery within 1-2 years. So if you can add that guy to a team that's already stocked with complementary young talent to build around, that's the ideal rebuild. (Think adding Oden to Roy and Aldridge. Would be sensational if Oden could be healthy/that guy.) And if you can't draft him while the core's too young to win, you still have the chance to get him later in free agency. We've seen superstar FA's change teams. And that's only really possible if you can offer not only max money, but young and high-level supporting talent.
No matter what, that supporting talent is critical. Once that group hits their prime, underwhelms, gets expensive, and erases your chances of finding your franchise player, then you say "not worth it" and get rid of them.
#57
Ed
07/29/10 04:20 PM
You are correct that it is hard to win now without a top player. Therefore, you try to get back a solid player with upside back in the trade, you suck for a year or 2 so as to get some high picks, and you build around the guys you got in trade and the picks. The blueprint is the Thunder. They took their Durant pick, traded many players for picks (Ray Allen became Jeff Green), they drafted Westbrook and Harden with their own picks, Ibaka with a pick they got in a trade. They filled in the blanks with players with upside.
Bottom line is they need to get back a player or 2 they can rebuild with. In a deal with Orlando, that player would be Gortat and the picks they get for Carter and/or Nelson. With NY, it would be Anthony Randolph, and 1 player from Chandler/Gallanari. With NJ it would be Derrick Favors. With Philly it would be Igoudala. Each team has a player who would replace Paul in the rebuilding plan.
For the hornets, the rebuilding is halfway there. They have a great supporting cast with Collinson, Thornton, Poindexter and West. They need to use this trade and the draft to get a stud SF and a solid C. The trade would make them bad for a year, they could grab a high pick, and with the players coming back in the trade they could be a very good team. If they could get Granger back in a deal, preferably with Hibbert, they would be a playoff team right away, with the potential to be good for a long time.
#58
Daniel
07/30/10 01:33 PM
Like it or not, Chris Paul has become poison for New Orleans. With him, they're unlikely to make the playoffs. The questions that Cleveland has been asking about Lebron and Toronto about Bosh as to whether or not they tanked would occur in New Orleans with Paul. You'd have to expect that the rumors of him having a short list of teams that he wants to go to are correct, so why would any other sensible team even consider making a bid to take that sort of poison. To further diminish his value, it would seem that New Orleans would want some other team to take over what is considered a bad contract for Okafur. Whereas fans might want equal value for Paul, there is no way that they will get it. While Paul has mentioned Portland as a possible team, that was so that he can play with Roy, not be traded for him. Paul wants to be part of another big 3 just like Lebron, regardless of where his current contract places him.
The sooner he is traded the better. While other teams might be brought in for a 3 or 4 team trade; Chris Paul should wind up on one of the teams he named, who will give New Orleans less than full value for him. To help even things out, he should be suspended from being able to play for his new team for a good number of games.
#59
leer123
07/30/10 09:24 PM
**GREATEST trade not involving cp3: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=248yqxy
hornets get iggy and granger. Phily also gets 2011 1st rounder and a pair of 2nd rounders.
#60